Analogue perfection vs. DEQX perfection (Off Topic)

by PeterSt. , Netherlands, Monday, December 31, 2007, 10:57 (5953 days ago) @ GC

Guys ...

Let me stress first that this is not about what is and what should be in absolute sense, but it is only my opinion / ideas about things.

Your experiment is interesting and a proof of, I think, it is possible to
expand sound beyon the walls.

If you throw Roger Waters "Amused to Death" into your playback
system...hehe..
this recording shows sound far beyon any walls here in my big room.
But of course this record has been phase manipulated.

I was not saying that it is not possible to expand the sound to beyond the room boundaries. What I do say though, is that it should not be so. And if that happens, something is (very) wrong. Even with Amused to Death it wouldn't happen (nor with the other Q-sound albums I have).

If the sound expands beyond the walls of the room, this is no virtue. It causes brain damage (ok, so to speak).

Things are more complicated than can be put into words, already becausr it's no absolute science (IMO). It more or less comes down to (or is related to) what GC said about the headphones; the music will be inside your head;
Now, with (I think) a good playback system, being on the sweetspot, the music will be in your head just the same, but, this only happens at closing your eyes. Leave them open, and it won't work. You will see a room, and the sound comes from that room('s walls) (more or less virtually spoken, but you'll know what I mean). When the music is inside your head, the sound is around you. Is that right ? ... no. Not to me ...

Technically spoken it is not even necessary to be on the sweet spot to perceive things as intended. I'm not saying that this would be equal to attending a live concert where there is no sweetspot (necessary), but I do say that this is related to the 2 radiating sources, the speakers. Phase alignment sure isn't happening at one spot only, and instead there are lines that can be followed.

Don't look at the circle or the actual positioning of the lines (this graph was made for something else) but think of it being allowed to be anywhere on a solid part of a line to perceive proper phase alignment. This includes the time the soundwaves need to travel. Note though, that when it comes to the latter, this graph was made for/with speed of light waves; with sound waves theories would work out the same, but because sound travels so much slower, the lines caNot be so near the "antennas" (speakers).

Ok, I myself am not sure why I showed the above without an additional couple of pages to eleborate further. The point is, that where this is about localization by means of phase shifting, it works the other way around just the same : by means of proper phase alignment you can perceive sound radiating objects (like a small bell) in a 2d plane just by means of two radiators (speakers) BUT the sound radiating object may shift across lines depending on where you are listening to it. This is because two radiators (speakers) is not enough (it takes 3 for 2d and 4 for 3d).

If you, for fun, look at the circle now, and think that this circle is a small bell, this picture tells that where the bell actually is at the position of the circle, it can be perceived anywhere on a solid part of the lines. Not good.

To make it one step more wild :
Some time ago I found that when all "wobbling" is eliminated -and this is the standing waves subject- harmonics need not to be on a recording to let them emerge again in free air anyway. On this matter, note that "air waves" (which is sound) is one big pile of coliding matters, and the less "wobbling" is in the base, the more tight the intended colisions will happen (a small bell becomes more like a real bell which can be pinpointed).

The more our radiators are beaming themselves, the less influence there will be from walls, the more individual sounds can be pinpointed. BUT :
The more walls influence, the more the music will stay in the room and the more it will be the room producing the sound.

With headphones this caNot work, because there are no reflections from walls. You will be in the middle of the sound.
With a good damped room and being on the sweetspot, again you will be in the middle of the sound (eyes closed); with proper time alignment of speakers (and drivers) all comes together at this line which will be running through the middle (unlike the graph above where no line is running through the middle -> never mind), although that line will not stay on the same vertical level (it will bend vertically like you see it on the graph horizontally).

I am very sorry for the fuzzy mixed unstructured things above, but my own conclusion of it is that sound will extend beyond the room when the room is damped "sufficiently", or when the sound produced is so bad that no pinpointing can happen. On that matter :

GC, your reference to my barstool was about that exact moment the filters were wrong, and a.o. there was (way) too much bass. You will recall that. As well as how we all disliked the produced sound in general. So this is when the sound leaves the room ... :wacko:

Peter

Tags:
0