Anyone built a Quasar Mk2? (BD-Design)
by fu_man 
, Saturday, February 18, 2006, 17:54 (6641 days ago)
Just wondering if anyone has built the Quasar Mk11 and has any impressions?
Seems like a really promising speaker.
I have been interested in the Oris horn for some time but it's too much of a project for me. I've never heard the Oris horn but loved the Avantgarde Duos I once heard. Anyway, I have had Martin Logan CLS electrostatics for a long time and i wouldn't mind downsizing - but it's hard to move on. I've heard plenty of 'good' box speakers but none appealed (to my ears) like the panels...could OB's be the answer?
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by Bert , Monday, February 20, 2006, 10:05 (6639 days ago) @ fu_man
Hi Fu_man,
hard to move on. I've heard plenty of 'good' box speakers but none
appealed (to my ears) like the panels...could OB's be the answer?
That depends, what did you not like from the speakers you have heard?
What were you missing, the clarity of the CLS or the openess of the sound?
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by fu_man , Monday, February 20, 2006, 13:04 (6639 days ago) @ Bert
What were you missing, the clarity of the CLS or the openess of the
sound?
Well, yes, and yes. the clarity and the openess. that's a very good way to express it really. I dont find that i can accurately describe sound in the manner of a reviewer. The first time i heard ML's i was attracted to the sound "floating" across the room. Extremely non fatiguing. Prior to that listening too long used to leave me irritated. I used to say i didnt like boxes because they had too much colouration, but i dont know if that's true. i heard many good 'boxes'. Shahinians for example. Recently i heard a high end Linn system at a dealers which whilst impressive didnt capture me... unitl they changed from the universal player to a turntable..wow. that was the first time i realy understood what vinyl junkies are on about, i really felt it. That sound was about as good as i have heard. and through boxes! But soon after listening to some horn speaker (it took years before i got the chance) they moved me in a differnt way - the sound flowed out abolutely effortlessly. (that was in a big room)
I tried listening to Gallo refernce 3's but they didnt recreate the same effect. They did have an amazingly spooky width of sound. Some Zu druids impressed me even more but still didnt give me goosebumps. (only heard at a reseller so maybe i didnt give them enough time.)
I find the Martin Logans ('full range'panels) very easy to listen to. Non demanding yet involving with their detail. I guess for this same reason i find them very weak with any type of rock.
I've never really heard OB speakers (unless those funny looking Lowthers at the London hifi show last year were) but the idea of no box seems promising - and yes i'll admit those Quasars LOOK awesome!
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by Bert , Tuesday, February 21, 2006, 23:46 (6638 days ago) @ fu_man
I find the Martin Logans ('full range'panels) very easy to listen to. Non
demanding yet involving with their detail. I guess for this same
reason i find them very weak with any type of rock.
They can rock too but you'll need a lot of power to kick them alive. That's different with horns or other high sensitivity systems (with easy load for the amplifiers used).
I've never really heard OB speakers (unless those funny looking Lowthers
at the London hifi show last year were) but the idea of no box seems
promising - and yes i'll admit those Quasars LOOK awesome!
The main advantage of the Quasar is that there is hardly any filter used which gives the open and transparent sound. The open enclosure gives the sound freedom but needs much extra energy in the bass for the lost energy (that is why I have two 15" drivers in them).
The Quasar's do rock when asked but their main quality is their musical and free sounding presentation.
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by helmut , Monday, February 20, 2006, 17:22 (6639 days ago) @ fu_man
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I'm building speakers for 30 years and 10 years ago built my first fullrange backloaded horn (driven by 10cm Fostex FE103 Sigma).
Yes, thes Quasar design is very attracting to me from s visual standpoint as well as from it's philosophy. I'm wondering what it's sensitivity is - must be considerably lower than that of an ORIS horn?
Also, I assume the overall sound ist not as fast and open when compared to the ORIS horn.
In short, what is setting this design apart form the ORIS horn family?
Regards, Helmut
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by Bert , Tuesday, February 21, 2006, 23:55 (6638 days ago) @ helmut
Hi Helmut,
Yes, thes Quasar design is very attracting to me from s visual standpoint
as well as from it's philosophy. I'm wondering what it's sensitivity is -
must be considerably lower than that of an ORIS horn?
The system is active (same principle used as with the Oris systems) and the sensitivity depends on the fullrange driver used. With the Fostex FE206E the sensitivity is 98dB (about 9dB less than the Oris).
Also, I assume the overall sound ist not as fast and open when compared to
the ORIS horn. In short, what is setting this design apart form the ORIS horn family?
This design is another approach for creating musical ejoyment. Some people find the Oris system too directive (presenting all very close to you) and prefer the sound more "over there" and more diffuse. With this in mind and many discussion about the advantage of open panels made me design and play around with this approach.
I have to admit that open panels do have their advantage which an Oris horn does not bring, more freedom in their presentation.
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
Does an open baffle system like the Quasar have equally detailed sound compared to a horn (oris) or is there a big difference in sound perception apart from the more diffuse sound?(depending on how dead your room is)
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by Bert , Wednesday, February 22, 2006, 07:40 (6637 days ago) @ just.sounds
Does an open baffle system like the Quasar have equally detailed sound
compared to a horn (oris) or is there a big difference in sound perception
apart from the more diffuse sound?(depending on how dead your room is)
There will always be a big difference in sound perception, with a front horn the sound will be more clear, details are more recognised and imaging (stereo) will be very precise. The sweetspot will be smaller though...
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by helmut , Wednesday, February 22, 2006, 12:21 (6637 days ago) @ Bert
Hi Bert,
thank you for the information. This gives me some idea on what differences to expect between the Quasar and the ORIS design.
However, to my experience, the listening room most of the time makes a big difference too. Some designs are more robust to the ambient than others, and backloaded horns can be a nightmare in this sense (being one of the reasons I want to replace mine).
Therefore I would be very interested in an option to try out your designs (Quasar and ORIS) in my own listening room before possibly purchasing one of them. With any electronics I always do that. I know, that it's not so easy to accomplish with speakers (due to their size and weight). Is there any chance we can get this to work? I'm living in the Stuttgart area in Germany.
Thanks,
Helmut
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by Bert , Wednesday, February 22, 2006, 13:46 (6637 days ago) @ helmut
Hi Helmut,
However, to my experience, the listening room most of the time makes a big
difference too. Some designs are more robust to the ambient than others,
and backloaded horns can be a nightmare in this sense (being one of the
reasons I want to replace mine).
Listening rooms can be a nightmare and if they are then no speaker will perform optimally. This is one important thing to address first if you want to have a better sound.
I do not know if the problem is your room in combination with the FE103 in a rear loaded horn. Such a system will be honky on its own because of the high "crossover" (low-mids coming from the horn, that is giving colouration).
What problems do you experience in your listening room at this moment? Did all the speakers you've built in the past 30 years have the same problem?
Therefore I would be very interested in an option to try out your designs
(Quasar and ORIS) in my own listening room before possibly purchasing one
of them. With any electronics I always do that. I know, that it's not so
easy to accomplish with speakers (due to their size and weight). Is there
any chance we can get this to work? I'm living in the Stuttgart area in
Germany.
Sorry, can't do that. Too much time needed and work to be done and, besides that, Stuttgart is about 600km from my place. I can only assist you from a distance.
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by helmut , Wednesday, February 22, 2006, 18:05 (6637 days ago) @ Bert
Hi Bert,
Listening rooms can be a nightmare and if they are then no speaker will
perform optimally. This is one important thing to address first if you
want to have a better sound.
Yes, I agree, and I'm aware of this. Actually, I'm quite satisified with the "sound" that can be reproduced in my current listening room (might be due to the fact that most of the building is made from wood).
I do not know if the problem is your room in combination with the FE103 in
a rear loaded horn. Such a system will be honky on its own because of the
high "crossover" (low-mids coming from the horn, that is giving
colouration).What problems do you experience in your listening room at this moment? Did
all the speakers you've built in the past 30 years have the same problem?
Due to it's size (10 cm FE103, cabinet 105 cm high), the speakers are restricted in the low bass output.
![[image]](images/uploaded/image90.jpg)
I found a positioning that gave acceptable bass performance, but we decided to move the furniture including the speakers. In their new position, the stage is better than before, but the bass dropped even more. So overall, it's just that I want to get even better speakers and there is no doubt, it got to be a fullrange (more or less) with very high efficiency.
Regards,
Helmut
Anyone built a Quasar Mk2?
by Bert , Wednesday, February 22, 2006, 21:06 (6637 days ago) @ helmut
Hi Helmut,
Yes, I agree, and I'm aware of this. Actually, I'm quite satisified with
the "sound" that can be reproduced in my current listening room (might be
due to the fact that most of the building is made from wood).
Then both systems will do well. Which one you prefer is something that you can decide while listening elsewhere (when properly setup)....
position, the stage is better than before, but the bass dropped even more.
So overall, it's just that I want to get even better speakers and there is
no doubt, it got to be a fullrange (more or less) with very high
efficiency.
This is a good sign, that system does not provide real bass and then you should not hear it, if you do hear deeper bass then its the room doing that (very depending on where you listen too).
The bass system with toth the Quasar and an Oris system are low Q and "active" giving some freedom in tuning the bass. The Quasar likes to have some space behind it (>1m) and the Oris sounds best when you're about 4m away from them.
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Thanks
by helmut , Thursday, February 23, 2006, 10:53 (6636 days ago) @ Bert
Hi Bert,
thank you for the information!
The bass system with toth the Quasar and an Oris system are low Q and
"active" giving some freedom in tuning the bass. The Quasar likes to have
some space behind it (>1m) and the Oris sounds best when you're about 4m
away from them.1m for the Quasar is not that easy, but 4m for the Oris is fine in my room if they are close to the wall. Is putting the Oris close to the wall OK (typically)?
Helmut
Thanks
by Bert , Thursday, February 23, 2006, 21:59 (6636 days ago) @ helmut
Hi Helmut,
1m for the Quasar is not that easy, but 4m for the Oris is fine in my
room if they are close to the wall. Is putting the Oris close to the wall
OK (typically)?
The reference bass system is designed for use relatively close to the corners and the horns are more directive (less energy going to the sides), no problem. 
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!