Turntable versus CD... (Off Topic)

by James D, Sunday, September 10, 2006, 09:38 (4147 days ago)

I thought I would give my observations of this as it was mentioned one of the threads below...

My system, FWIW, is the Quasar Mk.1s and a variety of valve amplifiers - mainly SE and my own design. My digital system is PC Notebook, Foobar fully configured as per Berts advice, USB to I2S to stacked differential 1541s IT into valve buffer.

WHat I wanted to say was that my vinyl playback betters my digital in several important musical respects. It maintains a much better sense of performance and coherence than digital and has more extended and delicate highs. Bass has better texture and definition than digital and much better sense of timing...

To achieve this I spent the grand total of £200 or €300... much less than I did on my digital frontend... I use a rebuilt Lenco L78 idler deck in a home made plinth, home made Schroeder style tonearm and Denon 103 cartridge... This betters all the belt drive turntables I've compared it to. The only deck (other than say the Garrard 301/401) that I know that equal it are some of the top end direct drives but they cost a bit more than the Lenco :smile:

The point I wanted to make is that there is no need to spend 1,000s on a vinyl front end. Save the 1,000s for the Orphean :grin:

James

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Turntable versus CD...

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, September 10, 2006, 12:23 (4147 days ago) @ James D

http://members.home.nl/fmunniksma/lencol78.htm
:smile:

Hi James,

Really good that you posted this. It could save a lot of money !!

WHat I wanted to say was that my vinyl playback betters my digital in
several important musical respects. It maintains a much better sense of
performance and coherence than digital and has more extended and delicate
highs. Bass has better texture and definition than digital and much better
sense of timing...

If we only could make this objective !!
I mean, each of the topics you mention here applies to exactly what happened overhere in two weeks time, starting with Foobar and ending with, well, what we ended up with. :cool:
And again it says nothing, because it could apply to the change from a Sony cartridge deck to a Nakamichi deck.

But of course what you experience is true in your environment, and it only needs the same environments in order te let it be true (or not) everywhere;
For you counts that per my and Bert's expression :confused: you must *assume* that Foobar really isn't the basis to have at comparing.

I can get my Thorens with Ortophone from the attic, and connect it to an improper preamp, then probably finding digital better ...

What a wonderful world this is ...
:ok:
Peter

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Turntable versus CD...

by James D, Sunday, September 10, 2006, 17:01 (4147 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hello Peter,

Yes its difficult isn't it?

If we are talking about music reproduction then we are always going to end up with a subjective judgement as we don't 'hear' with our ears... They are the transducer in the system but we 'hear' with our brains that processes the transducer output for us to experience the sound... the music we experience with our soul...

I can measure objectively most/all of the relevant parameters that characterise the sound I hear... and I can measure objectively most/all of the parameters that characterise the way each piece of equipment in the reproduction chain performs...

But I can only 'guess' i.e. interpolative judgement, at how it will reproduce music... but still at least the vinyl reply chain measures better than the dgital chain for the most/all of the important parameters for music reproduction... as opposed to the important parameters for sound reproduction where the digital chain is better...

James

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Turntable versus CD...

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, September 10, 2006, 17:23 (4147 days ago) @ James D

Hi James,

... as opposed to the important parameters for sound reproduction where the digital chain is better...

This might be more important to achieving the solution than we might think ...
Currently I am so far that each improvement unveils a so much audible bad thing in the chain. Believe it or not, but this has nothing to do anymore with the soul (but your expression about this is true of course). Instead, it has become a very simple listening to distortion, and when the distortion is tweaked away, there's an instrument. Note though, that before the (implied) improvement, there's nothing. So no distortion and no instrument.

I really think that I am near to "telling" how audio sounds, and where it is wrong, if both parties only have my current setup. Again this has nothing to do anymore with "being with the music" or "how it gets you" or "depth of stage" (which could be intended) etc. etc. If there's one slight prove of distortion somewhere, tweak it out, and the mentioned phenomena (as examples) must have improved.
Oh, note that "tweak it out" might implicate a set of new amps !:swoon:

I don't think I can get the message to anyone that once you're over this big hurdle, first bad things come to you as distortion previously not there, and second you can get rid of it and there's a complete instrument in place.

Cymbals and the like are difficult, right ?
Well, yesterday I visited a live two-man band, one behind unamplified drums, and one behind the keyboard. It was in a tent, and I was about alone. So I set down 10 meters in front of the drummer, and explicitly started listening to how cymbals should sound ...
Well, from the Swings they sound better.
:biglol:
Of course this is stupid, but it is true anyway, and so far I blamed in on the keyboards overruling the sweet highs. The highs sounded enormeously distorted.
It doesn't take much to let that happen in your room, and (overhere) it has become easy to solve such things because it has become stupid listening to distortion. Anyone can hear that, and it's not subjective. Anyone can hear when it's replaced by an instrument just the same. :grin:

Peter

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Turntable versus CD...

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, September 10, 2006, 17:01 (4147 days ago) @ James D

Hi All,

As a matter of fact, in the Showroom I see many of you have the beasts of turntables ... Are there more amongst you that can express -with all words you can find- the differences between your digital setup and the turntable ?
If you ever dared to go digital of course ... :no:

Regards,
Peter

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Turntable versus CD...

by Don Reid, Rural Northwest Georgia, USA, Friday, September 15, 2006, 19:55 (4142 days ago) @ PeterSt.


As a matter of fact, in the Showroom I see many of you have the beasts of
turntables ... Are there more amongst you that can express -with all words
you can find- the differences between your digital setup and the turntable.

Hey Y'all,

Back in my glory days before I became brain damaged and sawed off some of my fingers I played the piano. I have a nice Yamaha which I played daily. When I first got a CD player I was delighted to discover that it did some qualities of the sound of a piano, especially transients and rhythm so well that piano sounded more alive that on an LP. However, CDs did not recreate the sound of other instruments such as the tone quality of saxophones, which I also played, or bowed strings in nearly so lifelike a manner. Twenty years later I still vacilliate between favoring digital or analog depending on music, instruments, mood swings, barometric pressure, etc.

My turntable is a vintage but still high quality VPI. I use an Eminent Technologies air bearing tonearm. In years past my favorite cartridge was a Shinon Red Boron, but now my propensity for breaking styluses has caused me to be demoted to a Sumiko Blue Point Special.

Bye
Don Reid

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