USB to glass digi out (Off Topic)

by ffd @, Sunday, October 08, 2006, 21:48 (4119 days ago)

All
are all these usb/optical adapters(i.e. turtle,beringer,etc.)
worth an effort,say laptop to dac etc.
Please excuse this basic question if it has been covered already
thx
ffd

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USB to glass digi out

by ffd @, Monday, October 09, 2006, 15:17 (4119 days ago) @ ffd

Hi
I thank all the members of this forum for the threads on pc playback
I just finished setting up Ramdisk (sweating bullets while doing so)and All I can say is wow. With this setup costing next to nothing I'll have to plan on those FLH's sooner. Again thanks to you all:grin:

Time to grab an adult beverage and rediscover the music of my youth. Well maybe I'll wait untill afternoon:wink:
ffd

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USB to glass digi out

by soundcheck @, Germany, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 14:25 (4118 days ago) @ ffd

Hi ffd.

Good to see that you confirm the findings about the RAMDISC.

Bring such a topic up in other forums - they'll shoot you.

To name some - Hydrogene, JRiver, EAC, DIY-Audio.
Either there are to much on the "consumer side or PC-audio fraction" - they'd never hear a difference - or "on the engineering side" -they'd never try unless you show them a graph. Telling you "Its all Digital" and "Its all Bit perfect" period.

With Bert forums it's a bit different. It's not too technical. And people
are open to try new things - even if others would call it Voodoo or snakeoil.:grin:

One more hint:

Try also to rip with J.River to Ramdisc and also map all temporary folders
to ramdisc.

I'll soon post some rip comparision results.

Lets hope that Peter somehow integrates the ramdisc into his GC-player.

Klaus

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USB to glass digi out

by ffd @, Thursday, October 12, 2006, 12:32 (4116 days ago) @ soundcheck

Good to see that you confirm the findings about the RAMDISC.


Sure made things less fatiguing. Significant longer time listening.
I'm in R&D and have plenty of tools for hypothesis testing. This type of study is limited to subjective analysis which I'm not a big fan of. However, unless someone has a better way, it seems we are all getting validation from each other.

Bring such a topic up in other forums - they'll shoot you.

Or they just ignore you

With Bert forums it's a bit different. It's not too technical. And people
are open to try new things - even if others would call it Voodoo or
snakeoil.:grin:


Many years ago I was one of those snakeoil salesman (I have repented for my sins by wasting a lot of time and money)

One more hint:

Try also to rip with J.River to Ramdisc and also map all temporary
folders
to ramdisc.

I'll try this sometime today. I think you guys have already discussed the settings for J. River.

I'll soon post some rip comparision results.

Look fwd to benchmarking your comparison technique

ffd

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USB to glass digi out

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, October 15, 2006, 10:08 (4113 days ago) @ soundcheck

Lets hope that Peter somehow integrates the ramdisc into his GC-player.

Klaus,

GC-Player won't play from Ramdisk; it just plays from memory. So no "hustle" with Ramdisks.

Peter

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USB to glass digi out

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, October 15, 2006, 10:20 (4113 days ago) @ ffd

All
are all these usb/optical adapters(i.e. turtle,beringer,etc.)
worth an effort,say laptop to dac etc.
Please excuse this basic question if it has been covered already
thx
ffd


I am afraid your question is not clear. Well, not to me :cool:

Also, a "Turtle" would be a soundcard with DSP possibilities, while the "Behringer" will be some processing (DSP) or mixing device.

If you wonder whether it's worth a try to not go directly from the PC/USB to the DAC (with USB input) ... yes, it might be worth it, but further explanation will require your saying what you currently have (like *do* you have a DAC with USB input and if yes, what other input possibilities the DAC has).

So if you could enlighten ...
:rolleyes:
Peter

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USB to glass digi out

by ffd @, Monday, October 16, 2006, 20:16 (4111 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Sorry bout the lact of info:blush: I'll try this again
After I expanded the amt of Ram in Ramdisk my PC is no longer happy with me:sad: no problems it has little ram anyway so time to buy more:grin:

My system 2 way stereo
Toshiba laptop XP
Ramdisk & Jriver
Usb 2 out to a Behringer U202 (USB to SPIDF optical)
Behringer DEQ2496 to Decware Zbox (tube is Siemens Au7)
modded T Amp
Visaton B200 OB (fullrange)
Also out from the DEQ I have the BehringerDCX 2496 crossing the signal at 55hz 24db Lkw slope
Amp: Cyrus2
Sub: wo32 with Decware 10's (I believe they are custom eminence)

Movies stuff
who cares:wink:

Cigar: Candela rap dom long filler
Drinks: often Bushmills
Dog: Rotty
Ok I'll stop
thx
ffd

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USB to glass digi out

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Tuesday, October 17, 2006, 11:39 (4111 days ago) @ ffd

Sorry bout the lact of info:blush: I'll try this again
After I expanded the amt of Ram in Ramdisk my PC is no longer happy with
me:sad: no problems it has little ram anyway so time to buy more:grin:

My system 2 way stereo
Toshiba laptop XP
Ramdisk & Jriver
Usb 2 out to a Behringer U202 (USB to SPIDF optical)
Behringer DEQ2496 to Decware Zbox (tube is Siemens Au7)
modded T Amp
Visaton B200 OB (fullrange)
Also out from the DEQ I have the BehringerDCX 2496 crossing the signal at
55hz 24db Lkw slope
Amp: Cyrus2
Sub: wo32 with Decware 10's (I believe they are custom eminence)

Movies stuff
who cares:wink:

Cigar: Candela rap dom long filler
Drinks: often Bushmills
Dog: Rotty
Ok I'll stop
thx
ffd

Sorry bout the lact of info:blush: I'll try this again
After I expanded the amt of Ram in Ramdisk my PC is no longer happy with
me:sad: no problems it has little ram anyway so time to buy more:grin:

My system 2 way stereo
Toshiba laptop XP
Ramdisk & Jriver
Usb 2 out to a Behringer U202 (USB to SPIDF optical)
Behringer DEQ2496 to Decware Zbox (tube is Siemens Au7)
modded T Amp
Visaton B200 OB (fullrange)
Also out from the DEQ I have the BehringerDCX 2496 crossing the signal at
55hz 24db Lkw slope
Amp: Cyrus2
Sub: wo32 with Decware 10's (I believe they are custom eminence)

Movies stuff
who cares:wink:

Cigar: Candela rap dom long filler
Drinks: often Bushmills
Dog: Rotty
Ok I'll stop
thx
ffd

ffd,

The only thing I can really deal with are the cigar and the Bushmill.
To find out what a Behringer U202 is it needs the Russian language I think.
Going through a DEQ2496 means molesting the sound (the DEQ lowers the volume in the digital domain), and since (I think !) the DCX2496 accepts analogue inputs only, you will be going out of the DEQ analoguely. That means two D/A conversions (and A/D) which can't be the best thing to do ...
Again, what the U202 is doing I can't tell, but probably it only converts USB to SPDIF.

Having a Behringer for the DAC (that would be the DEQ) is IMO by itself not a "decent" way to produce audiophile audio, so ... what to do ?

To my personal (!) experience, something like a DEQ isn't needed. I mean, if you are bothered by standing waves or whatever anomalies in room response, this should be attacked at the source (somehow). Too difficult to explain, and for now please believe me.

When the DEQ is out of the way, you best have a crossover which works in the digital domain from the beginning, hence no A/D conversion needed. This way you will need a crossover with audiophile DACs.
Best would be a crossover operating in the analogue domain (does it exist ??), so you can use the best audio DAC you can pay for, that outputting to the crossover.
Note that a crossover is different from a speaker (phase) correction system, and if you actually need a crossover only, just build a proper filter.

When you have the DAC right behind the PC, and not molesting the sound after the DAC by digital processing (starting with A/D conversion, and ending with another D/A conversion, with the latter destroying your first DACs efforts), it's time to look at how to connect the DAC to the PC;

IMO outputting from the PC with USB, while the DAC doesn't have a USB input, is more or less useless, and the USB to SPDIF conversion might destroy things again. However, you will be avoiding a soundcard then, *and* you will be kind of avoiding XP molesting the sound.
Another way of doing this, can be outputting to an external soundcard with Firewire being the best option for guaranteed transfer (opposed to USB), the external soundard reclocking the data near to the DAC, and the soundcard outputting in SPDIF (an RME Fireface400/800 will allow this).
This needs the "expertise" to avoid XP's sound molesting features (but can be done).

There are more ways, but the most important is that you shouldn't have a bit molesting device in the chain (like a digital crossover), because then you can do one thing only : have that one or two existing crossovers with proper DACs (which IMO even don't even exist compared to the bunch of normal audio DACs).

So concluded : yes you certainly can achieve things by another route to the DAC, but first throw away all the other stuff.
Except the cigar and the Bushmill of course.
:wacko:

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USB to glass digi out

by ffd @, Tuesday, October 17, 2006, 16:58 (4110 days ago) @ PeterSt.

The only thing I can really deal with are the cigar and the Bushmill.
To find out what a Behringer U202 is it needs the Russian language I
think.

huh

Going through a DEQ2496 means molesting the sound (the DEQ lowers the
volume in the digital domain)

I actually have to drop the gain by 3db

> analogue inputs only, you will be going out of the DEQ analoguely. That

means two D/A conversions (and A/D) which can't be the best thing to do

The DCX2496 is connected to the DEQ with AES/EBU XLR

Again, what the U202 is doing I can't tell, but probably it only converts
USB to SPDIF.

That's my interpretation also

Having a Behringer for the DAC (that would be the DEQ) is IMO by itself
not a "decent" way to produce audiophile audio, so ... what to do ?

To my personal (!) experience, something like a DEQ isn't needed. I mean,
if you are bothered by standing waves or whatever anomalies in room
response, this should be attacked at the source (somehow). Too difficult
to explain, and for now please believe me.

I believe, I believe:grin:
I use it mostly to tame some of the worst recording I have. Just a little decrease between 3 to 8khz. I used its room correction to mixed results. Still playing with it.

When the DEQ is out of the way, you best have a crossover which works in
the digital domain from the beginning, hence no A/D conversion needed.
This way you will need a crossover with audiophile DACs.
Best would be a crossover operating in the analogue domain (does it exist
??), so you can use the best audio DAC you can pay for, that outputting to
the crossover.
Note that a crossover is different from a speaker (phase) correction
system, and if you actually need a crossover only, just build a proper
filter.

I'll have to learn how to do that. Not my expertise

When you have the DAC right behind the PC, and not molesting the sound
after the DAC by digital processing (starting with A/D conversion, and
ending with another D/A conversion, with the latter destroying your first
DACs efforts), it's time to look at how to connect the DAC to the PC;

IMO outputting from the PC with USB, while the DAC doesn't have a USB
input, is more or less useless, and the USB to SPDIF conversion might
destroy things again. However, you will be avoiding a soundcard then,
*and* you will be kind of avoiding XP molesting the sound.
Another way of doing this, can be outputting to an external soundcard with
Firewire being the best option for guaranteed transfer (opposed to USB),
the external soundard reclocking the data near to the DAC, and the
soundcard outputting in SPDIF (an RME Fireface400/800 will allow this).
This needs the "expertise" to avoid XP's sound molesting features (but can
be done).

This is gold thx for the advise (boy am I learning lots..take it slow I am a blond)

There are more ways, but the most important is that you shouldn't have a
bit molesting device in the chain (like a digital crossover), because then
you can do one thing only : have that one or two existing crossovers with
proper DACs (which IMO even don't even exist compared to the bunch of
normal audio DACs).

I am using the DCX for the sub only

So concluded : yes you certainly can achieve things by another route to
the DAC, but first throw away all the other stuff.

Agreed I have been a big fan of a minimalist approach in the past. I'm starting to learn that I've made some classic mistakes trying to achive good digital audio. My biggest mistake has been not putting enough effort into the source first.

Except the cigar and the Bushmill of course.

Well I got that one right:grin:

:wacko:

Thats me

Thanks so much i take all of this data to heart and welcome it

:wacko:

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