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What to do with too many Watts ? (Off Topic)

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Friday, February 16, 2007, 13:32 (3990 days ago)
edited by unknown, Friday, February 16, 2007, 13:39

Hi Bert,

Let's assume for now that an UcD 700Watt class D will be "the one".
Could you, with your knowledge, tell how all those horsepowers can be managed in a way we have comfortable volume control, *and* of course not loosing quality ?

A fixed resistor of the best quality maybe ?

If there is no way to do this without loosing quality, we must be sure to add whatever it is to get comfortable volume control, and *then* listen. I mean, it would be reality to do something about it, because I really can't imagine that one click of a 24 step is not too loud already.

We can't say 700 / 24 = 29.1 Watts I suppose ?
If not, how does it work then ?

Thanks,
Peter

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by Bert @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 13:48 (3990 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hi Peter,

Just have the input sensitivity made very low. 5V for maximim output works well with high sensitive speakers. I am sure that the amp has a resistor already within the design that regulates the amount of amplification. This way it is not needed to add another component in the signal path (read more noise, more distortion).

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by leifchristensen @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 13:52 (3990 days ago) @ Bert

how does this comply with the postulate,that the first watt is the most important?on horns more than anything.
and distortion often exposed in ss amps on hornsystems when the amps are not allowed to "rev"it´s engine?
best
Leif

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by Bert @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 14:09 (3990 days ago) @ leifchristensen

Hi Leif,

how does this comply with the postulate,that the first watt is the most
important?on horns more than anything.

Sure the first Watt is still the most important one and it is possible that the new technology has the same problem as the standard SS amps.

Still, there are some SS amps that do the first Watt very well (class A?) where already some power is used to get the amp to work. A warm amp usually sounds better and all those new amps are all feeling stone cold...

I do not have any idea how these new amps work though, my guess is that these do work very hard in the Mhz regions (without getting hot due to low current) and therefore migth not have the common SS problems?

If a cold new type amp already sounds better that a "hot" one then perhaps these can even be improved further by letting them work a bit harder to produce some heat where it is most important?

If it sounds worse then this might be the reason and cure, time will tell!

Either way, to go back to the original topic, adding resistance at the output of the amp to absorb energy and making the amp much less efficient migth be a good idea too.

Additonal note: that last idea won't work to aborb enough energy simply becasue a loudspeaker is not a resistor with a fixed value. The changing impedance creates a variable reduction of energy and thus changing the tonal balance of the speaker.

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by leifchristensen @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 14:25 (3990 days ago) @ Bert

BUT...what is wrong with the(in my opinion) superb BD 30?
best
Leif

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You miss the point...

by Bert @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 14:41 (3990 days ago) @ leifchristensen

Hi Leif,

Thanks but this is not about replacing the BD30's, its about comparing my own main amps (the LadyDay's) to hear if these D-amps can do a better job. At least for me... :wink:

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Friday, February 16, 2007, 14:49 (3990 days ago) @ leifchristensen

BUT...what is wrong with the(in my opinion) superb BD 30?

[image]

:lol:

Leif, if you make this a new thread, and delete your post here, I'm sure it will grow to an interesting thread. Could you do it please ?

Peter

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Friday, February 16, 2007, 14:40 (3990 days ago) @ Bert

Not sure (at all) :

I don't think squeezing the input is a good solution, because you will squeeze away resolution. I know, it's analogue, but still.

Another thing is, that I don't think a class D is about attenuating an otherwise full signal (like with class A), and it is merely about gradually amplifiying. Also note that a class D (afaik) doesn't do anything when it's not fed with (m)volts hence sound.

And Leif, IMO the revving up into clipping areas is unrelated, because from theory follows that when you need more "balance" in the volume span, this wouldn't be from zero to full 700W ever. You'd always end up at half the physical span or even less if you're comfortable with that.

Besides that, a good class D has a THD figure (like 0,03% or so) which is pure straight from 20Hz till 20KHz. So you *can* run it at full power.
As a sidenote, a poor class D like the T amp, has 20% THD over 60% of it's span.
I just looked it up for the Ucd700 ... THD is 0.007% at 1W and 0.04% at 600W. Isn't that something to look forward to ? We'd probably keep in the near 0.007% range ...

By writing this I'm near sure it is just the amplification which should be less aggressive, and (obviously) not ending at 700W, but at, say, 150W.
The headroom should remain the same, as long as the power / caps part isn't changed.

If no one disagrees, shall I ask this to Hypex ? (I asked it without any fundamentals before, and received the answer "but you'd have plenty of headroom". IMO no good if one thick of the volume produces 30W = airfighter SPL against 112dB sensitivity.

Peter

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by Bert @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 14:50 (3990 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hi Peter,

I don't think squeezing the input is a good solution, because you will
squeeze away resolution. I know, it's analogue, but still.

Just have them lowering the input sensitivity. It is not a bout squeezing at all if they can do this by changing a resistor value.

I just looked it up for the Ucd700 ... THD is 0.007% at 1W and 0.04% at
600W. Isn't that something to look forward to ? We'd probably keep in the
near 0.007% range ...

You can't hear less than 1% distortion (speakers produce more than that!) so who cares about specifications lower than that? More important is the type of distortion and amount of feedback they use...

If no one disagrees, shall I ask this to Hypex ? (I asked it without any
fundamentals before, and received the answer "but you'd have plenty of
headroom". IMO no good if one thick of the volume produces 30W =
airfighter SPL against 112dB sensitivity.

You can ask them whatever you like, I do not need to know. How they will sound is what I want to know...

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Friday, February 16, 2007, 14:56 (3990 days ago) @ Bert

If no one disagrees, shall I ask this to Hypex ? (I asked it without

any

fundamentals before, and received the answer "but you'd have plenty of
headroom". IMO no good if one thick of the volume produces 30W =
airfighter SPL against 112dB sensitivity.


You can ask them whatever you like, I do not need to know. How they will
sound is what I want to know...

Djeez Bert, READ WHAT I SAID.

Man, you are as coorporative as a banana;
I also asked you a question you didn't answer.
Please ban me. :bey:

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by Bert @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 15:07 (3990 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hi Peter,

Djeez Bert, READ WHAT I SAID.

Then be more clear...

Man, you are as coorporative as a banana;

I am as coorporative as I can if things are usefull to me. I do not spend much time thinking about things not related to my own interest. I do not need/want to prove things or learn exactly why things do or don't work.

I like to learn practical things as theory usually doesn't cover everything.

If it sounds better in the end then its okay with me... :wink:

I also asked you a question you didn't answer.

Are you sure I didn't answer? What was the question? :pardon:

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Friday, February 16, 2007, 15:29 (3990 days ago) @ Bert

Right, if this is your so explicit attitude, could you explain why I am even bothered asking you things about the UcD700 ? I recall doing this for you too ...

If now you think I can manage, because you are interested in your own questions only ... well, I don't know what to say.
Nice coorporation this is.

Peter

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by Bert @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 16:06 (3990 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Peter,

If now you think I can manage, because you are interested in your own
questions only ... well, I don't know what to say.

This is not the issue. Its about what is important (for the person involved) and taking the time for things that actually do matter. Im my opinion you are chasing things not interesting at all (for me, in the practical sense). As mentioned before, why would I want to know/learn about things I do not need to know? Why filling my head with information about things I have no work for or can't do anything with?

I build and design loudspeakers and I am good with that. Other people are very good with amps, everybody has its own speciality in this world. I rather spend my energy in building and designing better speakers. I leave all the technical stuff related to other things to other people who are working in that area. I do not need to know everything when other people already know about, it is much more easy to ask them to find a solution without knowing how they made it possible. If it works then okay, cool!

I just have my car tuned to have some more HP's and N's. I have hardly the knowledge about how to do this by myself so I pay the guy to do that for me.

The car now is pretty spicy and I am happy! What do I care what caused it to run like it is going now...? You would probaly want to know every detail, not me.

Same with amplifiers. I play them and if they work out okay then I am happy without knowing all the technical details. I don't care!

You do care so feel free to ask the guys at Hypex the things you want to learn but do not expect me anticipate in that (I will go grazy and rather spend more time preparing and sending orders). I will listen to the amps and if they are good then that alone is already enough information for me.

As answered before, have Hypex to lower the input sensitivity because at the other end it won't work with speakers. Just use that bit of information as practical solution, its free!

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Friday, February 16, 2007, 15:31 (3990 days ago) @ Bert

I am as coorporative as I can if things are usefull to me. I do not spend
much time thinking about things not related to my own interest.

The more I read this the more it suc ks.

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What to do with too many Watts ?

by Bert @, Friday, February 16, 2007, 16:09 (3990 days ago) @ PeterSt.

I am as coorporative as I can if things are usefull to me. I do not

spend

much time thinking about things not related to my own interest.


The more I read this the more it suc ks.

Try to read less litery, you know me better than that.

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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