Trend's TA10.1 listening impressions (Off Topic)

by angeloitacare, Wednesday, February 21, 2007, 21:04 (3990 days ago)

Hi all

today i received the Trend's Audio TA10.1 classT amp. I connected it to the orpheans, and i must say: it's just overwhelming. That little, tiny $99 dollar
amp makes the orpheans sing !! The sound becomes incredibly fast, immediate, sheare speed... it's just another category of listening experience. If this T-amp sounds so good, how must the RedWine Signature30 sound on the orphean's ??!!I think ClassT amp's are a great match with hornspeakers.

Angelo

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Trend's TA10.1 listening impressions

by Shanko @, Thursday, February 22, 2007, 08:44 (3989 days ago) @ angeloitacare

Agreed. I recently had a TA10.1 running my Oris 150's (with modified Sonic Impact T-amp on the 10Pi bass horns). Very nice overall (although the power supply didn't get on with my system and I ended up using a modified and bigger SMPS that I had been using with a sonic impact). I even toyed with using a pair of modified TA10's as my main amplifiers. But I am now building a pair of 41hz AMP4's that I intend to direct couple (no input cap) to my TVC pre.

I expect that these will work very well.:grin:

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Trend's TA10.1 listening impressions

by angeloitacare, Thursday, February 22, 2007, 12:33 (3989 days ago) @ Shanko

Hi Shanko

when i am playing even at half volume, the TA10 does in uneven sequences interrupt the sound for short moments. Do u know what that is? Could it be the powersuply, wich you referred to? i reported it to david ho, he said he would report it to the engeneer next week, as now is chinese new year.

rds Angelo

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Trend's TA10.1 listening impressions

by Shanko @, Friday, February 23, 2007, 08:25 (3988 days ago) @ angeloitacare

Hi Angelo,

No I didn't encounter that problem - not sure what it would be. I didn't use the stock power supply because it dumped noise into my system. I also bypassed the volume control using the handy internal jumpers.

Shanko

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RWA signature 70

by takman @, Friday, February 23, 2007, 07:44 (3988 days ago) @ angeloitacare

My Red Wine Audio Sig 70s have about 100 hours on them now. I must say, they are superb. While sounding great from the beginning, there was something not natural about the sound. Hard to explain, but it was an organic sound but somewhat different from the sound of the actual instruments. Now things are sounding much more natural. Dynamics and clarity were great from the start, and these are the amps' greatest strengths. I can listen to these for hours on end without any fatigue whatsoever. With the great dynamics, I am not bored during listening sessions either--a problem I had with my 45 SETs (though I must admit they were not the most high-end 45 SETs in the world). I think the dynamics complement the AER drivers very well. Whether they are too dynamic for the Orpheans, I have no idea. They are very revealing of problems upstream, so now it is hard to listen to the system for example with my laptop PC plugged to the wall (as opposed to listening to the PC battery powered) whereas with my previous amps such differences were mostly obscured. I can honestly say that I do not miss tubes, and I can't help but think that this is the future of amplification.

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RWA signature 70

by soundcheck @, Germany, Friday, February 23, 2007, 09:07 (3988 days ago) @ takman

Welcome to the club! Cheers

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RWA signature 70

by Bert @, Friday, February 23, 2007, 09:14 (3988 days ago) @ takman

Hi Taki,

were not the most high-end 45 SETs in the world). I think the dynamics
complement the AER drivers very well. Whether they are too dynamic for
the Orpheans, I have no idea. They are very revealing of problems

There is no such thing as too dynamic! Unless you mix things and talk about issues not related to dynamics...

In my mind, more dynamic is more real unless it is an artificial kind of added dynamics (distortion).

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Dynamics

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Friday, February 23, 2007, 09:51 (3988 days ago) @ Bert

There is no such thing as too dynamic! Unless you mix things and talk
about issues not related to dynamics...

In my mind, more dynamic is more real unless it is an artificial kind of
added dynamics (distortion).

Hi Bert,

This is just for fun, and without any scientific proof (well, as is commonly known from me :cool: :confused:) :

First Bert, I'm talking about a "phenomenon" you didn't experience yet. Yep, some things I keep for my self (because of pure misery BTW :wacko:). With the subtitle "I duNo where all this can end anymore", one of the major things I achieved is crazy more dynamics;

This time I am not playing crazyly loud but at normal 12 oclock level (which averages near 90dB at 4m distance), but things start to happen like the exploding balloons which couldn't be copied by electronic gear ...

I certainly want to keep on topic for this thread, and my message kind of is : when even more dynamics will be added e.g. by means of a faster amp, things could turn into, say, painful. Mind you, I say could, because it is an expectation I have, based upon my current system, which can improve inheritently for dynamics here and there, as you know.

When a drummer practices his drumming (and the room is a tad too small) he wears earcaps; the enormeous speed of the rise of amplitudes is not really meant for the spead of our ear membranes (???).
This has nothing to do with distortion, but with a "blast" just becoming a blast because of speed. Before it was loud sound ...

Most probably I am highly pretentious with this, but let's say for now that this is just because I'm the first to be ignorant, as always.

There is no such thing as too dynamic!

Of course by itself this is true; A live violin in your (not too large) listening room will hardly hurt your ears. A piano ... same. A flute, ditto, but a trompet ...
I kind of expect that "we" come near the area of needing to play music SOFTER than live levels (unplugged), because otherwise the dynamics are going to kill because of to small rooms hence being to near to the source.

As said, you can't know what I mean, as this is per this small change : http://forum.bd-design.nl/index.php?id=12950&page=0&category=0&order=last_a...
Can't explain as of yet why exactly ... :read:

Peter

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Dynamics

by soundcheck @, Germany, Friday, February 23, 2007, 10:42 (3988 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hi Peter.

I have also some kind of theory in mind, which I do not intend to fully express here.

I'd support what you say. The very fast transients making the sound extremely dynamic! If you have an optimised chain starting with the PC, low jitter digital path and a powerful DAC output stage your transients are probably much more energetic than they've ever been before. (That's what I am enjoying now since quite a while. :grin: )

I do not think though that the earlier described behaviour has something to do with the AER drivers! (Though you never know!)

I do not think either that these amps are flawless. The output stages (coils and filters) of the T-Amps are quite important, they need to differ depending on their load!
If done bad that might have an impact. The SMPS also induces ususally extra distortions. Running subwoofers with them ( I am talking about the 2020 range) is a NO-GO for me!

It is hard to conclude that subject at this stage. Too many wild guesses around.
One thing is clear:
At a certain point you have to go for a compromised solution that -- in the end -- is matching your taste.

Cheers
Klaus

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Dynamics

by Bert @, Friday, February 23, 2007, 13:28 (3988 days ago) @ soundcheck

Hi Klaus,

At a certain point you have to go for a compromised solution that -- in
the end -- is matching your taste.

I have to disagree unless taste is the same as reality...

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Dynamics

by soundcheck @, Germany, Friday, February 23, 2007, 15:01 (3988 days ago) @ Bert

Hi Klaus,

At a certain point you have to go for a compromised solution that -- in
the end -- is matching your taste.


I have to disagree unless taste is the same as reality...

Ciao,

Bert

Hello Bert.

I don't really understand your statement. We need to define "Reality"!

I guess we are entering a philosophical discussion around the subject.

The way how I see it:

Due to technical and environmental limitations of any system, we won't be able to get a perfect reproduction. Never. It all starts with the recording -
we discussed this earlier, and ends at our brains.
There are just too many parameters you're not able to manipulate.
You'll tweak your system so far that you might call its output "Reality".

If we're honest to ourselves. It is not Reality. It is a try, to reproduce music as good as we technically can, which gets us close to what we think is reality, a nice illusion - virtual reality!
We absolutely do not know, to stay with the earlier used example, how this or that particular violin sounded when recorded. We can just say it sounds real -- or to be more precise -- at least it doesn't sound wrong!
What's the benchmark here. The 100% perfect audio benchmark has never been agreed upon. And it most probably will never ever happen.
It might be real live music, though even that is impossible, if you start thinking about it! (Although many audio freaks claim that their audio gear sounds better than live. :wink: )

All sound impressions expressed in the audio world and around here, are based on more or less well performing audio systems, and are IMO pure subjective and very emotional driven. That's what I call - Taste!

Cheers
Klaus

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Dynamics

by Bert @, Friday, February 23, 2007, 13:34 (3988 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hi Peter,

Of course by itself this is true; A live violin in your (not too large)
listening room will hardly hurt your ears. A piano ... same. A flute,
ditto, but a trompet ...

Yep, that is what I want, reality! Even if that hurts my ears!

And, if the playback level is too "dynamic" for my ears then I will take a seat virtually further away from the source by means of turning down the volume.

Tsss, softening the sound to protect the ears or equipment is something already done by most engeneers and manufacturers. Same with creating a tastfull sound that is pleasant to the ears... if that is the goal then use Foobar!

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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RWA signature 70

by takman @, Friday, February 23, 2007, 11:22 (3988 days ago) @ Bert

Bert, I am a big fan of dynamics. But if the transients were sharper (in moments like when a jazz drummer strikes the rim of a drum) than what I now have, then perhaps it could get a little uncomfortable. I'm not saying what the Orphean sounds like, though, as I have not heard it. Only saying that the combination of the Oris Reference with the Sig 70 amps is a very nice one.
Absence of compression in musical climaxes--now that is something that I can't get enough of. With these amps, the fff peaks in the music are very very lifelike with almost nothing held back. This is something the little 45s could not do at all. Probably different with tube amps with higher power, but it seems current limitation exists to a greater degree in tube amps compared to these T class amps in general.
Off topic, one thing that I noticed with the added clarity that I now have is the significant difference in enjoyment between a studio recording and a live recording for jazz and other music that use amplification in live concerts. I now always opt for the studio version as this gives me a good reproduction of the sound of the instruments themselves, not the amplified sound (well at least for acoustic instruments).

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RWA signature 70

by angeloitacare, Friday, February 23, 2007, 13:35 (3988 days ago) @ takman

hi all

the insert of the TA10 has made the biggest impact in my audio chain so far.
The Viva SET sounds more natural than my 30W Telefunken amp, but it is not a amazing improovement. But the TA10 makes such a hudge difference. Specially the highs, WOW !!.... instruments are getting so lifelike, dinamic and fast. It' magic! I am in the right direction, will sell my Viva's, and buy a Sig30.

Angelo

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RWA signature 70

by takman @, Monday, February 26, 2007, 08:08 (3985 days ago) @ angeloitacare

The TA10 looks like its been getting nice reviews, and I have no idea how they will compare against the Signature 70s. Actually, I am not sure whether the Signature 70s are really better than the Signature 30s as RWA proclaims as I have not heard the Sig 30s. What I do know is that I am very very happy with my Signature 70s. There was an article a while back in ***an that did a blind test on 10 amps ranging from an under-$100 class D or T amp to a $25,000 Accuphase, and the cheap amp beat out the Accuphase (which came in last). OK, so maybe it's just the Accuphase being a bad-sounding amp. Anyhow, it's just so nice to get rid of all that bulk that usually comes with an amplifier (big transformers, multiple stages, etc.) and end up with a great clean sound. It reminds me of what the TwinDAC did compared to the dCS stack.

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Trend's TA10.1 listening impressions

by Sjef @, Saturday, March 03, 2007, 02:35 (3980 days ago) @ angeloitacare

I have bought a Trends TA10.1 last week just out of curiousity. It's running for a couple of days now and I'm still waiting for things to get better, so far it doesn't seem to happen. I'm not impressed by this little unit, well I'm a bit impressed by it's looks, it's a very cute little amp but not by it's sound quality. It's dull, lacks dynamics, lacks detail and all of the flesh and body seems to be lost. I have compared it to my 300B SET's, my Hiraga 20w Le class A, my little ECL82pp amp, my Tube/mosfet hybrid amps and they are all better in every aspect then this Tripath amp. It reminds me the most of a Gainclone I have once borowed from a fellow forum member on DIYaudio.com wich did not impress me either. The only amp I own (yes I own a lot of amps) wich performs worse is a EL84 triode pp amp based on the very famous Bocama transformers according to a schematic of the Direct Heated Rob website. I did not compare it to my NAD 2200PE amp wich might be worse too, don't know, don't have the urge to compare them. (Yes I have more amps, somehow I never sell all of my gear, it's just filling the closet, I didn't even mention my collection of preamps, dac's and speakers)

Maybe the Trends just has to have more hours on it or has to be tweaked a lot (battery supply ?, better input caps ? ERS shielding ?) I don't know but so far very dissapointing and I don't know what's the fuss all about. Just my personal experience, no pun intended.

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Trend's TA10.1 listening impressions

by angeloitacare, Saturday, March 03, 2007, 03:36 (3980 days ago) @ Sjef

hi Sjef

what speakers do u connect to the TA10.1 ? with the Orpheans, i have a lot more accuracy, tonal purity, resolution, clarity, detail, dinamics, than with the Viva Solista Amp. I never imagined to get such a improovement . But i very much think with the redwine signature amp it can get even better. It makes now just a lot of fun to listen to the orpheans ( only my neighbours are not so happy :cool: )
rds Angelo

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Trend's TA10.1 listening impressions

by Bert @, Saturday, March 03, 2007, 11:56 (3980 days ago) @ Sjef

Hi Sjef,

Maybe the Trends just has to have more hours on it or has to be tweaked a
lot (battery supply ?, better input caps ? ERS shielding ?) I don't know
but so far very dissapointing and I don't know what's the fuss all about.

Thanks for sharing, sounds like you have similar experiences as I had with the Sonic T-amp..

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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