Room correction with PC (Off Topic)

by Frode, Friday, August 31, 2007, 13:17 (3797 days ago)

I know a lot of you use PC as source, but does anyone have any experience with digital room correction with PC?

Frode

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Room correction with PC

by GC, Friday, August 31, 2007, 14:28 (3797 days ago) @ Frode

I know a lot of you use PC as source, but does anyone have any experience
with digital room correction with PC?

Frode

Hi Frode

I have very little to add here. But I heard it done from Peter Lyngdorf (Erlier TACT owner).

But he use a very dedicated devise to do it, and yes it's connected to a PC. The last is just a matter of some SW controling the meassuring of the room and settings the (DSP?) inside.

But I heard it at several occations. At first glance you would say: WOW. The room diappeared.
At second glance you may say: Auchhh...my brain becomes crazy from it.

I ended up in the last cathegory. It gave me the head ache.

Thereby I don't say it doesn't work. It does, but it has certainly also some set-backs IMO.

But Peter Lyngdorf is not the only one dealing with this stuff, but it is the only set-up I ever heard.

GC :grin:

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Room correction with PC

by Frode, Saturday, September 01, 2007, 18:28 (3796 days ago) @ GC

I think it's important to only use small changes. Most of the problems should be fixed by placement and traditional room tuning. Then you can do the last adjustments with a PC (or a Tact).

Frode

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Room correction with PC

by Don Reid, Rural Northwest Georgia, USA, Friday, August 31, 2007, 14:32 (3797 days ago) @ Frode

Hi Frode,

I use a DEQX PDC 2.6 for crossover between Oris 150/AER MD3s and the bass horns of Klipschorns and also for room correction. The combination provides the best sounding system I've ever owned after nearly forty years.

Digital room correction is a revelation. I have been listening in the same room since 1978, and it had many problems my mind had ssimply caused me to cease hearing. After a confusing but brief period of aural adjustment the absence or great diminution of resonances heard at the "sweet spot" listener's position improved the sound incredibly. I am a fan.

Don Reid

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Room correction with PC

by Frode, Saturday, September 01, 2007, 18:30 (3796 days ago) @ Don Reid

The Deqx seems like a very nice tool. I see more and more nice reviews from happy users. But unfortunately it is out of my price range at the moment.

Frode

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Room correction with PC

by robmatthew @, Monday, September 03, 2007, 19:47 (3794 days ago) @ Don Reid

As with Don Reid, I use the DEQX. THe DEQX taught me that room correction is just as important as speaker calibration especially if your speakers are pretty good to begin with. I could not go back now to an uncorrected system.

However, if you want to try room correction cheaply to see if "it's right for you" as they say in drug ads, try the Behringer 24/96 UltraPro. It has an automatic correction alogrithm which works very well. I use seven of them in my theater system. They are not as transparent as the DEQX, but they are not bad and they are an absolute bargain even in the USA.

Bob Figlio

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Room correction with PC

by Frode, Tuesday, September 04, 2007, 22:43 (3793 days ago) @ robmatthew

I did play with the DSP8024 a couple of years ago, but there has been a lot of changes in my setup since then. It seems like the PC-route is the cheapest and easiest solution in my current situation, but I haven't decided what to do yet.

Frode

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Room correction with PC

by unknown, Saturday, September 01, 2007, 13:32 (3796 days ago) @ Frode

I don't use a PC for room correction, but I do use a TacT 2.2X and strongly reinforce the value of this approach.

Not only does it perform room correction, but it also offers me complete flexibility in the crossover from my horns to my subs, allowing the entire system to perform coherently. The sound is entirely focused and musical and like Don, this is by far and away one of the best additions I have made to my system. There may be slight losses in overall SQ because of the upsamping and the (albeit good) internal DACs, but this is far outweighed by the overall improvements to the system - its all about getting the best compromises:wink:

At some time in the future, with Peter's recommendations, I will try a NOS DAC, but with XXHighend fully installed the Tact continues to shine. For the first time in years I don't have a need to seek out upgrades.

Cheers Chris

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Room correction with PC

by Frode, Saturday, September 01, 2007, 18:42 (3796 days ago) @ unknown

For now, it's the room correction possibilities that interests me most. But I've also been thinking of digital crossover using two usb-dacs for the output. A new software has just released here in Norway(LINK), and I really tempted to try it.

Frode

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Room correction with PC

by GC, Saturday, September 01, 2007, 21:51 (3796 days ago) @ unknown

I don't use a PC for room correction, but I do use a TacT 2.2X and strongly
reinforce the value of this approach.

Not only does it perform room correction, but it also offers me complete
flexibility in the crossover from my horns to my subs, allowing the entire
system to perform coherently. The sound is entirely focused and musical and
like Don, this is by far and away one of the best additions I have made to
my system. There may be slight losses in overall SQ because of the
upsamping and the (albeit good) internal DACs, but this is far outweighed
by the overall improvements to the system - its all about getting the best
compromises:wink:

At some time in the future, with Peter's recommendations, I will try a NOS
DAC, but with XXHighend fully installed the Tact continues to shine. For
the first time in years I don't have a need to seek out upgrades.

Cheers Chris

Hi Chris...

Interesting what you write...a blessing for you, a head ache for me.

I agree you can control the time domain by the device. A persumed valueable thing, sure. :yes: and :unsure:
I had a long 20 years relation to Peter Lyngdorf, I was his first employee. When he bought the Snell speaker factory he found a Serbian fellow living in NYC, employeed by now passed away Snell himself, and "he" stands behind his Tact products.

Now visiting Peter every now and then and further saw Peter wonderfully argumenting for his device both at his residence in DK and at CES etc. Only he can convince people by merely argumenting as he's a champion in this dicipline..I am still left with the head ache.

I'm not aiming at an argue here, just reporting my findings.

If a room want's to add something or it wants to phase out something. It is the room that does it, no matter what speaker is filling it with sound.
Hey...OK, let's steal some energy from a DSP controller and an amp to fill in dips and gaps, and the room disappears...?

No it does'nt. IMO.

The room is still there, but your speakers are told to act as a phase shifter 22 million times per second.

A room is a natural thing to perceive. It is actually not disturbing our brain at all. We compensate for its excistance and what our ears really perceive is the speaker itself.

Ha ha--- Is the room responsible for you caNot hear your wife telling you to do the dishes? No..you hear clearly the "command". Now pass her voice through a TacT room corrector and you are free'd from doing it, because you heard her tell *not* to do the dishes.

Here is my head ache barried. The TacT room controler is not doing it's job as the main story is told by the speaker and suplemented by a print of the room caracteristics.

Who add's most to the sound. The speaker and what's driving them. Yes. And no if your speakers are unable to control the room decently. A ratio not to be forgotten.

I am not in a battle to fight room controllers. It appeals to a lot. But I'm less voting for it.

To be more precise: The speakers output is my wifes command. She tells me to do this and that. The room compensator tells me different. She didn't ask.

Who in this world would ask a microphone in a concert hall ambience to eliminate it? Only Herbert Von Karian did that. And through his Deutche Gramofone period he screwed everything up.

I live harmoniously with my room footprint as my brain doesn't really of natural courses care.

Where am I heading? Well, the room it self has to be adressed as first priority. Second you are able to make the speaker (not the processor) control it. The controller is asking a speaker to eliminate a physical construction? Not working that way around I think.

How is that possible? Enlighten me...please. :friends:

Well to you Frode: We are living in the physical universe. We can add a lot of gadgets to it. Even be happy with it. But still, no Pvaraotti is to pass a manipulating device my place to let him stand on the summit of Mt. Everest and yell out his voice not being incircumfaced by a concert hall.

That's my head ache about DSP's.

With most understandable and warm greetings :grin:

GC

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Room correction with PC

by unknown, Sunday, September 02, 2007, 13:04 (3795 days ago) @ GC

Hi GC

Interesting what you write...a blessing for you, a head ache for me.

Yes this often happens in Hi Fi. For years I stressed out over the 'Lowther shout', but its gone now forever.

employeed by now passed away Snell himself.

I used to love the early Snell speakers. Like Bert, that man could squeeze magic out of a simple box.

If a room want's to add something or it wants to phase out something. It is the room that does it, no matter what speaker is filling it with sound.
Hey...OK, let's steal some energy from a DSP controller and an amp to fill in dips and gaps, and the room disappears...?

No it does'nt. IMO.

The room is still there, but your speakers are told to act as a phase shifter 22 million times per second.

A room is a natural thing to perceive. It is actually not disturbing our brain at all. We compensate for its excistance and what our ears really perceive is the speaker itself.

Before I had the Tact in my system I also thought this way. I try not to fill gaps and dips but to be gentle with correction and always to bring bumps back into line rather than raise dips.


Who add's most to the sound. The speaker and what's driving them. Yes. And no if your speakers are unable to control the room decently. A ratio not to be forgotten.

I'm not sure I go along with speakers controlling the room, they can control themselves but not the room.:wacko:

Where am I heading? Well, the room itself has to be adressed as first priority.

Agreed.

All I would add is that with my system - rear loaded horns, base reflex BD15 subs and Fostex supertweeters - the Tact does an excellent job. Before this, I spent ages integrating the subs, behind the horns. They are now pushed back into the corners and the Tact takes care of the time alignment.

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Room correction with PC

by GC, Sunday, September 02, 2007, 20:08 (3795 days ago) @ unknown

Hi GC

Hi Chris>

Interesting what you write...a blessing for you, a head ache for
me.

Yes this often happens in Hi Fi. For years I stressed out over the
'Lowther shout', but its gone now forever.

Sure it is...:wink: It is true that the Tact processor can flatten that shouter, even supress what it so happily does. He he...>

employeed by now passed away Snell himself.

I used to love the early Snell speakers. Like Bert, that man could squeeze
magic out of a simple box.

Yeah, you kow what the magic was? A resonating box, a 24 db x-over and all Qts = 1 drivers. Bingo then you have a Snell A 2 or 3.>

If a room want's to add something or it wants to phase out something.
It is the room that does it, no matter what speaker is filling it with
sound.
Hey...OK, let's steal some energy from a DSP controller and an amp to fill
in dips and gaps, and the room disappears...?

No it does'nt. IMO.

The room is still there, but your speakers are told to act as a phase
shifter 22 million times per second.

A room is a natural thing to perceive. It is actually not disturbing our
brain at all. We compensate for its excistance and what our ears really
perceive is the speaker itself.

Before I had the Tact in my system I also thought this way. I try
not to fill gaps and dips but to be gentle with correction and always to
bring bumps back into line rather than raise dips.

Yes Chris that might be very clever what you do there. Everytime Peter demo'ed the ******* to me he always forced at flat DC-light frequency curve and a zerro phase. That is really a lot of processing.

Who add's most to the sound. The speaker and what's driving them. Yes.
And no if your speakers are unable to control the room decently. A ratio
not to be forgotten.

I'm not sure I go along with speakers controlling the room, they can
control themselves but not the room.:wacko:

If they control them selves, the room caNot control them. This is what I mean. :grin:


Where am I heading? Well, the room itself has to be adressed as first
priority.

Agreed.

All I would add is that with my system - rear loaded horns, base reflex
BD15 subs and Fostex supertweeters - the Tact does an excellent job.
Before this, I spent ages integrating the subs, behind the horns. They are
now pushed back into the corners and the Tact takes care of the time
alignment.

I beleive in all time alignment apperateur. Common for them all, they do it.
You can do it mechanically..yes but you might not like the design then? You can do it in a passive filter x.over. Complicated, but possible up to 1/2 a wave length.
And the Tact also address it it's own way. It take a look at the spekaers total phase as you're ears perceive it where you place them when listening. And then it manipulate with the timing of all freqencies. Maybe it is this way of acheiving it that makes me crazy.

Chris I am sure that the devil do a lot of good things your place, otherwise I beleive you would have thrown it out already.
An mind you, I only heard it harrasing with the speaker connected. Were never allowed to play with the settings my self. That might have change my opinion a lot. :yes:


GC

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Room correction with PC

by Eddie @, Saturday, September 01, 2007, 23:39 (3796 days ago) @ Frode

Hello Frode,

Did you see already this site: http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Brutefir

BrutFIR is a general filtering program running in real-time under Linux. You may know that a few people on this forum prefer it above GC for straight playback of CDs. On the webpage you can read about more possibilities. In principle BrutFIR can do any processing you can think of within the limitations of your computer. As usal under Linux it is free of charge, but you may have to invest a considerable amount of time.


Kind regards,
Eddie

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Room correction with PC

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, September 02, 2007, 09:34 (3795 days ago) @ Frode

Frode, It's just in Vista ...
Don't ask me about the quality or how to control it.

Peter

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