Ciare HX201 in Oris 150 (Oris Horns)

by Flecko @, Sunday, November 25, 2007, 22:29 (3711 days ago)
edited by unknown, Monday, November 26, 2007, 17:51

Hi Bert,
I am proud owner of a pair of Oris 150!!! I bought them from Thomas from Frankfurt.
So now I am planing to use them with a fullrang driver at first and later converting them to a middelfrequency driver with additional bass and tweeter. For that purpose I made some simulations with AJ-Horn. The problem is that I don't know the function with which the horn opens. You said in one post that it has no Tractrix function. Perhaps you can look at the simulation I made from the MD3 and the HX201 and tell me if the results for the MD3 are nearly that what you meassured. So that I can conclude if I am on the right track with the HX201 and didn't simulated rubbish. The parameter for the md3 I have from this site,
http://www.aer-loudspeakers.de/de/ts_md3_g.html
I guess it is the right site. The parameter for the HX201 are from HobbyHifi and both parameters are printed in the graph as well. On the left the md3 on the right the HX201. The red curve is the MD3 the black one is the HX201. I assumed an exponetial function for simulation because it has given the best results, so it must be near that what you did, as I guess the Oris dosn't follow an exact function and is empirical tuned to the md3.
PS.: The frequency where the black curve falls is 200Hz. Sorry I masked the frequency scale
[image]
Thank you and Greetings
Adrian

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Bert @, Monday, November 26, 2007, 10:16 (3710 days ago) @ Flecko

Hi Adrian,

Congratulations!

The simulations are not correct, you probably did forget to simulate the back chamber volume and introduced cancellation between the front and the back.

With back chamber (compression chamber if you prefer) the ripple is not there and the extention is going deeper (-3dB at 165Hz with the MD3).

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Flecko @, Monday, November 26, 2007, 17:45 (3710 days ago) @ Bert

Thank You Bert.
I simulated both speakers with 2l backchamber. Would you say that the HX201 will work looking at the parameters on the right side of picture before? The simulations of the two speakers are similar so if the AER normaly works to a lower frequency range perhaps the HX201 will do also a better job in the real horn?
Greetings Adrian

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Bert @, Monday, November 26, 2007, 18:51 (3710 days ago) @ Flecko

Hi Adrian,

With a higher Q you will get a stronger output in the lower midrange and will probably go a bit lower but as a result the higher midrange will sound more attenuated. Adding a 6dB filter to the HX201 will "flatten" the lower midrange response somewhat though with a lower Fc as result. It might go down to 120Hz flat when used in the Oris 150 (depending on filter and back chamber volume).

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Flecko @, Monday, November 26, 2007, 19:28 (3710 days ago) @ Bert

Thank You very much Bert. I will give it a try. I will play a little with the backchamber volume and see if I get something usefull out of the driver. You don't sell this driver?
Greetings Adrian

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Bert @, Monday, November 26, 2007, 20:46 (3710 days ago) @ Flecko

Hi Adrian,

Thank You very much Bert. I will give it a try. I will play a little with
the backchamber volume and see if I get something usefull out of the
driver. You don't sell this driver?

Nope, that driver is not on my list to sell. Let me know how it works out... :wink:

Enjoy the experiments!

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Ivo, Monday, December 03, 2007, 14:42 (3703 days ago) @ Bert

Hi Bert,

So why isn't the Ciare on your list? Enough brands in your productline, or do you see things in its specs that you don't like? I keep wondering about buying a pair to try in my fronthorns. At the same time, I am puzzled that nobody else tries this. Is it all wrong? I know Qts is on the high side, but it does have a good rising treble.

Ivo

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Bert @, Monday, December 03, 2007, 14:51 (3703 days ago) @ Ivo

Hi Ivo,

So why isn't the Ciare on your list?

I do not find anything interesting in that driver to try it myself...

I notice 2 major things:

There is a huge and wide dip in the lower midrange (probably breaking up strongly and cancellation due to its mechanical construction) plus the impedance curve that, even flattened a lot(!) still shows a lot of ripples in the higher frequencies which means resonances. The rising response is only a product of uncontrolled resonances if you ask me...

You may follow what other people write on their forums though (hype?) but it needs more to trigger me before I show any interest...

I could be wrong though,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Ivo, Monday, December 03, 2007, 14:57 (3703 days ago) @ Bert

Hi Bert,

Good answer, thanks.

No speakerbuilding for now, we just got the keys of our new rental house and will try to get everything done within december. I have seen that there is a wooden floor construction instead of concrete (1950's house in Monnickendam) and I was warned that some noises travel far through the block. I am thinking very hard about a "soft" bass solution. My floorboard subhorn might not be too bad, in that regard. The low mass will make it easier to isolate from the floor.

Thanks for the answer,
Ivo

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Ciare HX201 in Oris 150

by Ivo, Monday, December 03, 2007, 15:03 (3703 days ago) @ Ivo

I guess this also means the end of my Klason-horn plans for now. I received plans from Sweden, for Klason-horns for 12" drivers, frontloaded. A large one and a small one. These horns are down-firing and I don't think that's a good idea in this house... :no:

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House party...?!?

by Bert @, Monday, December 03, 2007, 15:08 (3703 days ago) @ Ivo

Hi Ivo,

Monnickendam) and I was warned that some noises travel far through the
block. I am thinking very hard about a "soft" bass solution. My floorboard
subhorn might not be too bad, in that regard. The low mass will make it
easier to isolate from the floor.

Horn bass usually travels less through wooden floors but decoupling would help to reduce "contact" noise anyhow.

Enjoy the new listening room experiments, things will sound completely different! :yes:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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House party...?!?

by Ivo, Monday, December 03, 2007, 15:36 (3703 days ago) @ Bert

Hi Bert,

Horn bass usually travels less through wooden floors but decoupling would
help to reduce "contact" noise anyhow.

Any tips to decouple a Klasonhorn? :wink:

I just like these old designs. I hesitated building the Schmackshorn for 12" drivers for a long long time, but it works beautifully. Well-tuned for use in a living room and it was fun building. I will think shorter about the next horn.

Maybe I should choose a way in between the Klason and the Schmacks. Build the Klason out of floorboard. :grin:

Ivo

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