Hello, I am new here...

hallo ,my name is Luca from italy,nice to meet you.
(i cutted and glued this post/reply from another post because it was several month old and maybe it could be off)

http://forum.bd-design.nl/index.php?id=13304

2)i am next to do a sistem like yours.i have a bass enclosure with altec 416 and a lowther dx3 in dipole over the bass
3)i have to buy everything to go to bi-amp and cut off the passive crossover
4)i think to gainclone for the bass and a 45 direct heated triode amp for the upper frequency
5)i need an active cross over and i thought to behringer,but you tell me that i could insert a passive-line-cross over before the bass amp and that it's better than the active solutione,is it right?where can i find this cross over ?is it usefull also for my altec or only for bd woofers?where it has to be positioned?i would like to stay without preamp in this moment(no money)
6)than i would like to buy an oris horn,and i woul like to know how they improve/modify the sound of the speaker alone.for little rooms 150's it's the same than the 200's?how does the sensivity increase?any graph?can i use a horn in a dipole sistem(horn in the front hanging on a dipole and nothing in the rear))
7)please help me to go the best/cheaper way..i hope you read this reply.....
8)any italian owner of an oris sistem?please write me..

lucanato@yahoo.com

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hallo ,my name is Luca from italy,nice to meet you.

Welcome!:bey:

4)i think to gainclone for the bass and a 45 direct heated triode amp for
the upper frequency
5)i need an active cross over and i thought to behringer,but you tell me
that i could insert a passive-line-cross over before the bass amp and that
it's better than the active solutione,is it right?

Yes,... :grin:

where can i find this

Check the Forum (Search) :read:

cross over ?is it usefull also for my altec or only for bd woofers?

The values are for BDtype bass :cool:

it has to be positioned?i would like to stay without preamp in this
moment(no money)
6)than i would like to buy an oris horn,and i woul like to know how they
improve/modify the sound of the speaker alone.

The Oris 150 make the Lowther's to come alive... :yes:

the same than the 200's?how does the sensivity increase?

The horn ads cca 6 dB:shame:

use a horn in a dipole sistem(horn in the front hanging on a dipole and
nothing in the rear))
7)please help me to go the best/cheaper

Better wait a little bit and save money for right think... :sorry:

8)any italian owner of an oris sistem?please write me..

Check the Showroom!

http://www.bd-design.nl/contents/en-us/d1_Showroom.html

Ciao,

Gasper.

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Thanks Gasper,

I do have to correct some answers though... :wink:

The horn ads cca 6 dB

The horn adds up to 18dB in the lower frequencies and average 6dB in the higher regions...

use a horn in a dipole sistem(horn in the front hanging on a dipole and
nothing in the rear))

This will be possible as I want to implement this idea (using the Oris 250) within the Quasar MkII.

That idea was already posted here:

http://forum.bd-design.nl/index.php?id=10292

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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ok
thanks,
oris let you go deeper than an open baffle.

i am not a technician so i caNot imagine solution by myself
if you can advice me the right way to go ,step by step, higher and higher in in hifi level i would appreciate this!!
[img]images/uploaded/image389.jpg[/img]
a friend of mine advice me to extend the dipole surface to go deeper at 180hz(now the cross over is at 500-600) in order to let the lowther playis his wonderfull mid-bass.
but i read in some thread that (in your opinion bert) it can't go deeper than 360hz in a dipole solution (without equalization).

i already told you than i'm buying an active cross over behringer,a 45 based ampli and a gain clone.
and i don't want to have a complete (bass and highs) open baffle but only the lowther side..
so please tell me this:

there are also these products PLLXO i coluld use instead of behringer,but without the possibility of practicing different cutting frequency..
http://www.marchandelec.com/xm46.html

can you tell me if i'm going right?
if it's better to take immediately two pllxo for both the ampli and avoid the active solution?
which is the reasonable cut for that solution?
or you advice me to put immediately an oris in front of the lowther and also extend the surface of the dipole?
which oris(150-200 -250)for 20-25m2 room? i think the 150 are the smaller(in deep or wide)aren't they,which are the differences?
do you experimented any line level equalization on the lowther or any plug that improve them?

at the moment i've to go with a passive pre-amp

please...step by step... let me understand how can i start moving forward..

for whom who told me to save money and wait... wait to buy what??

thanks again

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Hi Lucanato,

and i don't want to have a complete (bass and highs) open baffle but only
the lowther side..

I would go either fully open baffle (Lowther and bass like the Quasar) or both enclosed (same bass but added Oris horn) to have real body and dynamics in the low-mid range of the Lowther.

Making the baffle wider or longer will not help to get the Lowther down to 180Hz, no way! You will need at least a 12dB boost and an open panel is not helping, then you'll need about 18dB boost at 200Hz.

or you advice me to put immediately an oris in front of the lowther and
also extend the surface of the dipole?

In an fully open baffle configuration the Oris 250 will be best, in combination with your present bass system the Oris 150 will be best.

which oris(150-200 -250)for 20-25m2 room? i think the 150 are the
smaller(in deep or wide)aren't they,which are the differences?

The Oris 150 is the biggest horn, the Oris 250 is the smallest...the main difference is their lowest useable frequency and related size.

do you experimented any line level equalization on the lowther or any plug
that improve them?

This depends on the system....no need for things like that with an Oris horn. Without Oris horn you could try yo squeeze out more low-mids from the Lowther but then they do have to work real hard and your 45 amp will not be able to drive that to normal listening levels.

for whom who told me to save money and wait... wait to buy what??

I think this was Gasper trying to explain that it is best to save first (if you are short in money) and buy those things first that do make a difference...

Buying a gainclone and a 45 does not change the speaker system and that is your weakest link in the chain...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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thanks Bert!!
ok this help me.

fu_man mine was an experiment:to mix a reflex bass with an open baffle,and now crossed at 500 hz the sound is quite good,but
1)i wanted to go active
2)i love horns too
3)dipole with double bass and a lowther (and eventually an oris 150) has got to impact (dimension..) to my eyes and in little rooms

so i would stay with my reflex and maybe i need (or it would be better for little rooms)a solution like this (soo compact and friendly):
http://www.bd-design.nl/contents/en-us/d135.html

so Bert, now with this solution, the gain clone + 45 amp still is the weakest link in the chain ?
why?
waht chance do you suggest?

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so i would stay with my reflex and maybe i need (or it would be better for
little rooms)a solution like this (soo compact and friendly):
http://www.bd-design.nl/contents/en-us/d135.html

That would then be the Oris 250 as best solution. This horn is the smallest but still works well down to 220Hz (without using a crossover) before it starts to drop in level.

You could even give the horns the full frequency range without using any filter, only a filter for the bass is then needed. The horns and your 45 will have enough headroom to play loud enough in your room.

so Bert, now with this solution, the gain clone + 45 amp still is the
weakest link in the chain ?

No, then the only missing link is a good filter for the bass which can be active or even passive depending on the situation.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Buying a gainclone and a 45 does not change the speaker system
and that is your weakest link in the chain...

The speaker system is the weakest link. At least that's what Bert said here. :yes:
:grin:
Peter

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uhh!... you are right.... peter,i misunderstood.

bert how much do the oris 250s cost?
so i have to chose between:
stay with my hybrid set going active
let the dipole idea go away and use oris 250 going active

it's hard to chose having no idea of how the oris 250 sounds.
do you know any owners of oris 250 in italy or near to contact and maybe visit?

sorry bert you leave me always with "unanswered" questions..:
1 what would make me chose between active or passive crossover..
2 you tell me that i could use no filtered the lowther bur i imagine that filtering also the upper ways it's better anyway ,why don't do it?
3 i read that some one have buyed some special output transformer dedicated to high frequency, but now they are regretting not to have chosen the normal ones.

i've found this interesting link if you are curiouses..
http://www.delta-audio.com/Active%20filter%20one.htm

that woul be nice to equalize lowther peak.

i think that you are near to have enough of my questions....

so that's the moment to have fun and anjoy with my italian lesson!!!!!:
i teach you how in italy we call the sound of a lowther not optimized (and ,i confess, like mine is in this setup);the adgetcive describes the sound of a "black and decker" making a hole in a wall,and so also in your ears:
my lowther is "TRAPANANTE" :grin:

.. OH ****

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bert how much do the oris 250s cost?

879 Euro + VAT + shipping the pair as DIY-kit.

Extra's as paint and things cost extra..

it's hard to chose having no idea of how the oris 250 sounds.
do you know any owners of oris 250 in italy or near to contact and maybe
visit?

Check the Showroom...basically all Oris horns provide the same signature and that is a better sound than without... :cool:

2 you tell me that i could use no filtered the lowther bur i imagine that
filtering also the upper ways it's better anyway ,why don't do it?

A 20m2 listening room needs much less power than a room twice as big. The Lowther will not have any problem at your place, neither will you amps.

i've found this interesting link if you are curiouses..
http://www.delta-audio.com/Active%20filter%20one.htm

that woul be nice to equalize lowther peak.

With the Oris horns there is no disturbing peak or shout present, so why kill the signal with such digital jittering devices!?

You can use it to EQ the bass though but still, it would not be the optimum way to do it.

Less is usually more, even a passive filter will do something with the sound and if it is not needed then why use it...?

i think that you are near to have enough of my questions....

The moment I do not answer might give a hint when you've reached that point.:wink:

Cheers,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Hi Lucanato,
I'm sorry I don't really follow your question... and I don't really have the technical knowledge to answer such questions anyway...But if under question #6 you are wondering what is the difference between an open baffle versus a horn I would say they are completely different.

I haven't compared Berts OB and Horn designs, but the horns and open baffle designs that I have heard have had a very different 'type' of sound from each other. I built some cheap Visaton Open baffles to get an idea of the sound and see if I wanted to go in this direction... but listening to a friends horns convinced me to go for horns.

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I remember about three years ago when I had two systems set up side-by-side with identical Lowther drivers- at that time they were EX4's. One system was OB, the other, ORIS 150.

You could listen to the OB (corrected by DEQX as was the ORIS) and be quite happy with it. BUT, when you switched over to the 150 the result was always the same by everyone who heard it -- Oh my god!! what a difference. The horn is just more fun in every way.

Extremely low Q drivers need horns - period. Of course you can flatten them out, but as Bert points out- why kill the sound?

If you want to experiment with equalization, I suggest the Behringer 2496 UltraPro. It is not a DEQX, but it will let you evaluate what sophisticated equalization can do and it is an absolute bargain. Then after you decide what you want to do, you can implement the filters passively for better sonics.

Bob

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thanks rob.
i've found the peace of senses.. i've done a lot of experiment and now i have my sistem ok. one day i'll try horns but now i can't afford them,i'm sure they'll improve the sound.so thanks to every one and marry christmas to every body!!!

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"Peace of the Senses" is a good thing. Merry Christmas to you , too!
Bob

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