The biggest ever project in my life (Off Topic)

by GC, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 07:50 (3647 days ago)

Dear forum...

I'm a little excited for the moment as the first drafts are made for my future, until now, biggest audio project: My new listening room.

My wife and I will move from Belgrade to the hills of Fruska Gora near the city of Novi Sad and as we most likely have the opportunity to built a complete new residence, I shall have a chance to design the ideal listening room.

The room will basically be between 80 - 100 m2 and some ingeneers are now to deside for the ratio between depth, wide and height.

There are many approaches here, one of them being this one:

http://www.akustiksystem.de/

who shall be of help tweaking the room it self.

Furthermore there a several programs avaiable to define the ratios to optimum. This is due to eternal discussions. Some claims the Golden Ratio should be applied, and there are those who says it's not at all about that...?

Never the less I shall meet Rainer Weber at the Munich Audio Festival, who is a well reputed studio designer. He and his team will come to Serbia to build up the reflection/absorber design once the room is ready.

As you may learn, I already decided for the company and the team to do it, but I am very open to your comments and experiences.

GC

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The biggest ever project in my life

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 10:02 (3647 days ago) @ GC

Hi GC,

You could always ask that company how actually good or maybe bad round corners are (like with me). You have the opportunity now ...

When it is judged as the Walhalla, you could build a rather large pair of subwoofers in the empty space if the outside of the room is normally square cornered.

Peter

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The biggest ever project in my life

by MikeH @, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 12:35 (3647 days ago) @ PeterSt.

You could always ask that company how actually good or maybe bad round
corners are (like with me). You have the opportunity now ...

There is some comforting feeling from being inside curved rooms.
An egg or a violin would be quite beautiful.

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The biggest ever project in my life

by GC, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 17:48 (3646 days ago) @ MikeH

There is some comforting feeling from being inside curved rooms.
An egg or a violin would be quite beautiful.

Hey Mike...where to hang the galleries? Even worse..how now to pee in the corners? OK Kidding...you have a point. :grin:

GC

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The biggest ever project in my life

by GC, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 17:26 (3646 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hi Peter

Hehe...yeah... well this company actually shows very little of what they are capable of on their homepage. Rainer is a Guru in designing rooms for lunatics like me. :grin:

The subs...:shame: wow.. yes/no...in a way I'm not the biggest fan of introducing longer wave lengths into a room until the point where a full wave length of a given frequenzy can be contained *unbroken*.

So even the room might have a floor space of 100m2, I would be careful how deep bass I will aim for.

Room measurements will decide it.

But say if a sub should be inside there, it will be consisting of line arrays of dedicated woofers in all corners, so that the sub will be a cube structure similar to the edges along the corner/wall/floor/cieling. The whole sub en-fragmes the room and then the round corner *thing* is applied all over, but consists of woofers.

Crazy? :teasing: No. Cool? Yes :cool:


GC

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The biggest ever project in my life

by Bert @, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 17:56 (3646 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hi Peter,

You could always ask that company how actually good or maybe bad round
corners are (like with me). You have the opportunity now ...

I would vote against round corners as these will act like a "beamer" where all reflections from all directions will be reflected back to one point (like a satellite disc).

I would opt for nice flat cut corner with and angle of 30-45 degrees. Just a feeling though...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 18:34 (3646 days ago) @ Bert
edited by unknown, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 18:43

You could always ask that company how actually good or maybe bad round
corners are (like with me). You have the opportunity now ...


I would vote against round corners as these will act like a "beamer" where
all reflections from all directions will be reflected back to one point
(like a satellite disc).

I would opt for nice flat cut corner with and angle of 30-45 degrees. Just
a feeling though...

Hehe Bert, I think if you made a drawing of the reflections with a square corner, you'll notice that the reflections "beam" more as with a round corner (I think the round corner makes a nice umbrella of it). Besides that, the distances of the reflected waves will be not equal (the reflection right in the corner will travel the longest path).

But I don't know. The only think I know is that I created it like this, and for this on purpose. :yes:
Just curious what the gurus think of it ... they could agree with you for quite other reasons than mine. :unsure:


Edit : I just thought of why I think (ever thought) I am right on this : you said it yourself ... think of the satellite dish. But that works the other way around ! the dish has the shape it has, to beam (concentrate a wider beam into the ... say, speaker. Haha. :oops:
Of course I anticipate on reflections being there anyway, but more evenly spread now (the umbrella thing). Better dampen the lot behind the speaker ... maybe.

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The biggest ever project in my life

by GC, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 19:09 (3646 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Peter

You're the guy to make the test.

Make you favourit wife shout into your rounded corner. Listen. Let her go to a square corner and shout the same. Listen.

What was the results?

GC

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by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 22:02 (3646 days ago) @ GC

Oh GC ... I get scared ...
:tomatos:

But we will do the test and let you know (if Bert's swear filter allows it).

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The biggest ever project in my life

by GC, Thursday, January 31, 2008, 07:12 (3646 days ago) @ PeterSt.

But we will do the test and let you know (if Bert's swear filter allows it).

:lol:

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by MikeH @, Thursday, January 31, 2008, 10:52 (3646 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Edit : I just thought of why I think (ever thought) I am right on
this : you said it yourself ... think of the satellite dish. But that
works the other way around ! the dish has the shape it has, to beam
(concentrate a wider beam into the ... say, speaker. Haha. :oops:
Of course I anticipate on reflections being there anyway, but more evenly
spread now (the umbrella thing). Better dampen the lot behind the speaker
... maybe.

I'm far (very far!) from an expert, but I wonder if the satellite dish effect could be exploited by an absorbent column at the focus. focusing reflections at an absorber means they aren't elsewhere.

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The biggest ever project in my life

by leifchristensen @, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 10:22 (3647 days ago) @ GC

check with these guys:
http://www.rivesaudio.com
best
Leif

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The biggest ever project in my life

by GC, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 17:33 (3646 days ago) @ leifchristensen

http://www.rivesaudio.com

Hi Leif

I came across those guys as well during my search. There are several others who manage similar. In particular in US.

My choise of Kaiser Accoustics were merely from practical reasons and due to the fact they somehow are related to some of my near audio fellows here.

As they are willing to contribute with their own team building the room-perfect structure by them selves, I found it convinient that way.

Thanks for the tip anyhow.

GC :grin:

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by JAM @, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 10:38 (3647 days ago) @ GC

Hi GC (or CrazyG as I have baptised the lates addition to the "Crazy" family...)

Good to see people adressing this topic; this is where it all starts and you are of course aware of that. I have over the years been visiting an incredible number of audiophile people and it is sad to see at what pace and cost they are changing components while their room still remain hopeless and not fitted for proper sound reproduction....

I am duly aware of that many people interested in music and sound reproduction have limited possibilities to actually do very much with their rooms but for those who are lucky enough to do this it is probably the biggest single impact on the finished sound (besides changing to horn speakers of course..)

I am myself in the process of doing exactly the same as you are at the moment; designing a complete "music and listening pavillion" attached to my new house project. Now that world class sound is easily and fairly reasonably available (Crazy-series, BD15's, Orphean's etc.) there is enough spare change left to actually build a nice room surrounding it all! And this is the right way: Less money spent ond corporate marketing, and more money INVESTED in your own real estate (and not to mention the possibility of getting fabulous sound if things are done right!).

I have also been able to do various testings and found out early that it is also about cubic metres, not only square metres. It seems for now I will end up with some 110-120 square metres and a ceiling height of about 3,8 metres at the highest point. Equally important is of course the materials chosen, both for the internal and external surfaces of the floor , walls and ceiling.

If you would like to throw some ideas with one that has been doing a fair amount of "research" and scetches on this topic please feel free to contact me!

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by GC, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 17:45 (3646 days ago) @ JAM

Hi CrazyJ

Hi GC (or CrazyG as I have baptised the lates addition to the "Crazy"
family...)


Ooops, you forgot to mention the CrazyB....he will be jealous :grin:

Good to see people adressing this topic; this is where it all starts and
you are of course aware of that. I have over the years been visiting an
incredible number of audiophile people and it is sad to see at what pace
and cost they are changing components while their room still remain
hopeless and not fitted for proper sound reproduction....

I agree. Even in my church room here a EURO spent on some cloths and pillows does a lot.

I am myself in the process of doing exactly the same as you are at the
moment; designing a complete "music and listening pavillion" attached to
my new house project. Now that world class sound is easily and fairly
reasonably available (Crazy-series, BD15's, Orphean's etc.) there is
enough spare change left to actually build a nice room surrounding it all!
And this is the right way: Less money spent ond corporate marketing, and
more money INVESTED in your own real estate (and not to mention the
possibility of getting fabulous sound if things are done right!).

I have also been able to do various testings and found out early that it
is also about cubic metres, not only square metres. It seems for now I
will end up with some 110-120 square metres and a ceiling height of about
3,8 metres at the highest point. Equally important is of course the
materials chosen, both for the internal and external surfaces of the floor
, walls and ceiling.

This is exciting Jam. You must keep us posted on the progres. Like you no-compromise approach. :cool:

If you would like to throw some ideas with one that has been doing a fair
amount of "research" and scetches on this topic please feel free to
contact me!

I think this is an invitation for everyone who attacked their room anomalies, so the ball-dance is open.

I'll be back on this as soon I have my first drafts illustrated in 3-D.

GC

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by Bert @, Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 17:57 (3646 days ago) @ GC

Hi GC,

I'm a little excited for the moment as the first drafts are made for my
future, until now, biggest audio project: My new listening room.

Good idea and thanks for the topic....one can not repeat enough trying to make people understand how important a room and speaker placement is!

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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The biggest ever project in my life

by angeloitacare, Wednesday, February 06, 2008, 23:51 (3639 days ago) @ GC

hello GC

that's a informative site for Room treatment :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/bible/audio/acoustique_hc.php


it's french, but you can translate it. there are also a few links to other good sites.

rds Angelo

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by GC, Thursday, February 07, 2008, 06:18 (3639 days ago) @ angeloitacare
edited by GC, Thursday, February 07, 2008, 06:23

Thanks a lot Angelo for the input.

I tried hard to come through the French revolution...hehe..:grin:

There are many ways to Rome as we say.

However I think it's is all about to hit the right mixture of absorbtion, reflection and diffusion.

Absorbtion I prefer to kill with dedicated Helmholz resonators. Reflections by means of pannels. Defusion by means of this 200 - 20 Khz Manhatten structures (will be gipsed and painted and are 100% homemade):

[img]images/uploaded/image422.jpg[/img]

I may completely fail in my attempts....but then I'll let you know in due time.

GC :grin:

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