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Pictures! (BD-Design)

by Bert @, Saturday, July 18, 2009, 10:34 (3110 days ago)

Following up the topic Creativity is back... finally some pictures of the design principle. :kiekeboe:

[img]images/uploaded/200907181027354a61877729bab.png[/img]

This design (called Diamond as basic name for the upcoming series) will be scaled up or down depending on the needs and used drivers so that these can perform optimally for a certain setting or to have them more accepted by our wives...

I can think of several combinations to try and this is what I am going to do next. I will keep a log here so that you'll are informed about the process...

With this medium sized panel I'll start with the Feastrex D5nf full-range and Visaton B200 drivers for the bass as first combination.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Pictures!

by teigetje, Saturday, July 18, 2009, 22:46 (3110 days ago) @ Bert

Wow Bert :drool: ,

They are stunning! Really great looking "cabinets" :wink:
I have one question: why use 2 relatively small full range speakers, instead of dedicated woofers with long voicecoils? Wouldn't a special designed woofer do a better job? Or when you have a good reason (sure you will) why not using 2 BG20's?

Greetz, Frank

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Pictures!

by Bert @, Sunday, July 19, 2009, 18:41 (3109 days ago) @ teigetje

Hello Frank,

They are stunning! Really great looking "cabinets"

Thanks, they even look more majestieus in reality...
Here is a picture with the drivers mounted, do I need to say more? :yeah:

[img]images/uploaded/200907191838164a634bf88994e.jpg[/img]

I have one question: why use 2 relatively small full range speakers, instead of dedicated woofers with long voicecoils? Wouldn't a special designed woofer do a better job? Or when you have a good reason (sure you will) why not using 2 BG20's?

First thing to optimise the system with the Feastrex and see what can be done with the panel regarding balance in sound with the least compromise (using minimal parts) and from there the bass has to fill in.

Basically it does not matter what I use for the bass (at this stage) but as expected, those B200's do sound pretty vivid and alive. They won't be able to produce extreem loud bass in the open panel but for now they do very well and their behaviour will give me useful feedback in the search for the optimal bass drivers to suit my needs and preferences...

It is usually not about having long voice coils and extreme excursion capabilities to get GOOD bass, I have heard many producing only a lot of noise and that is not what I am after.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Pictures!

by Rudolf150 @, Monday, July 20, 2009, 11:25 (3108 days ago) @ Bert

Hello Bert,

Nice design ... and undoubtely a great sounding one too.
Something completely different from the Orphean; but a sort of reincarnation of the Quasar :wink:

Will you filter the Feastrex?

PS. Off topic: would you like to tell us what the main differences are in sound between the Feastrex and Lowther(-like) drivers?

Rudolf

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Pictures!

by Bert @, Monday, July 20, 2009, 12:47 (3108 days ago) @ Rudolf150

Hello Rudolf,

Nice design ... and undoubtely a great sounding one too.

At this stage they sound more than okay but not yet up to their full potential.

Something completely different from the Orphean; but a sort of reincarnation of the Quasor

Yep, I am coming back to this principle from time to time as open panels can do things very nice which a front loaded horn system just can't do...

Will you filter the Feastrex?

Yes, and for a good reason. With crossover the distortion will highly be reduced (if you want to crank it up) and optimal integration with the bass will be possible.

PS. Off topic: would you like to tell us what the main differences are in sound between the Feastrex and Lowther(-like) drivers?

The Feastrex drivers I am playing with are very nice in balance on their own without the need for a front horn, electronically notches or other "solutions" to cure problems.

No paper sound, no shout and a good balanced resonance pattern. These are basically plug & play... :yes:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Pictures!

by Telstar, Monday, July 27, 2009, 16:43 (3101 days ago) @ Bert

No paper sound, no shout and a good balanced resonance pattern. These are basically plug & play... :yes:

Just not cheap ;)

Pictures!

by samoore @, Monday, July 20, 2009, 06:08 (3108 days ago) @ Bert

Hi Bert,

Looks really good! So, tell me. What is the philosophy behind this speaker? What does it offer that the Orphean does not? What application would you suggest that it be used for that the Orphean will not fulfill?

Steve

Pictures!

by anubisgrau, Monday, July 20, 2009, 10:46 (3108 days ago) @ samoore

This looks interesting. I'm wondering are you limited to 8" drivers for the low frequency use considering a size of the cabinets?

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Pictures!

by Bert @, Monday, July 20, 2009, 12:50 (3108 days ago) @ anubisgrau

Hello Gordan,

This looks interesting. I'm wondering are you limited to 8" drivers for the low frequency use considering a size of the cabinets?

The size is limiting the choice of drivers but since the system will be scaled up for people who need more bass then this is not a problem. The present panels can hold 10" woofers easily...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Pictures!

by Telstar, Monday, July 27, 2009, 16:51 (3101 days ago) @ Bert

The size is limiting the choice of drivers but since the system will be scaled up for people who need more bass then this is not a problem. The present panels can hold 10" woofers easily...

Bert

Hi Bert, lil update for ya.

I have discarded the Ripole idea, because I'm getting really powerful bass with a straightforward U-frame, which has always been my first choice.

I really like this design and I will upgrade my fullrange drivers sooner or later.
10" woofers are nice, there are FEW but good units (in the top crop for me AE, Volt, ATC, Beyma). Clearly 2 are required to equal a single 12" in a small like mine.

I think that scaling up the design can do good for using also bigger fullrange drivers, or alternative more exotic stuff such as BIG ribbons and Heils, of course in dipole mode.

I'm more interested in the behaviour of two 45°-positioned woofers (plus inclination angle, which is usually small with dipoles, add another 10° maybe). How would they compare to a face-firing 12" or 15" driver, in sound quality i mean?

Also, where is the XO point about? I'm thinking between 200 and 300hz.

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Pictures!

by Bert @, Monday, July 27, 2009, 23:04 (3101 days ago) @ Telstar

Hi Telstar,

I have discarded the Ripole idea, because I'm getting really powerful bass with a straightforward U-frame, which has always been my first choice.

It depends on how loud you want to go...for normal listening conditions the one 12"-er should be enough but when using the system for HT it could not be enough.

I think that scaling up the design can do good for using also bigger fullrange drivers, or alternative more exotic stuff such as BIG ribbons and Heils, of course in dipole mode.

Enough exotic options to think about but for others to try... :whistle:

I'm more interested in the behaviour of two 45°-positioned woofers (plus inclination angle, which is usually small with dipoles, add another 10° maybe). How would they compare to a face-firing 12" or 15" driver, in sound quality i mean?

So far I do not make any difference but that is from memory but as far as I can tell the panel behaves just as one like yours is doing....

Also, where is the XO point about? I'm thinking between 200 and 300hz.

200Hz... so far without electronical correction :grin:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Pictures!

by Bert @, Monday, July 20, 2009, 12:34 (3108 days ago) @ samoore

Hi Steve,

Looks really good! So, tell me. What is the philosophy behind this speaker? What does it offer that the Orphean does not? What application would you suggest that it be used for that the Orphean will not fulfill?

Thanks...and so many questions! :wink:

The one thing that the Orphean (or any other front horn loaded system) will not do is to give you "freedom" of sound or "freedom" to listen to music anywhere you like.

For pop, rock, jazz and similar music it is more fun to listen to front loaded horn systems as this brings you very close to the musicians making it all very exciting. With classical or other related music recorded in rather big places this "closing in" feeling is to me less attractive, here a good integrated open panel system places you better within the same space (virtually being there) and not like you are standing in the doorway.

In very large listening rooms where you can take enough distance from the system then front horns can have freedom just as well but then still, it will never sound as free as an open panel system but the limited power will bring open panels into problems when these have to play in very large rooms.

To sum it up, I think that we all should have two loudspeaker systems. One for the excitement (like a roller coaster) and to be able to hear every little detail and another one to relax...

In my studio I will always have my "no limit" system (the Swing) and at home I will have my Diamonds to relax together with my wife so that I can enjoy all sorts of music optimally.

I hope this answers your questions.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Pictures!

by Rudolf150 @, Saturday, October 17, 2009, 22:27 (3019 days ago) @ Bert

Hello Bert,

Just being curious :wink:
Is there any news you can post on your open baffle project?

Thankx,
Rudolf

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by Bert @, Sunday, October 18, 2009, 14:04 (3018 days ago) @ Rudolf150

Hello Rudolf,

Just being curious :wink:
Is there any news you can post on your open baffle project?

The one I have is doing pretty well still but it is not enough...I want to change a few things and be able to create a larger (or smaller) version without too much hasle.

Changing the size (or even building one!) turned out to be pretty complex and therefore it would be needed to re-design the system in 3D (simulation) so that I can take all new dimensions from the generated drawings instead of cutting a lot of wood and angles until it fits properly...

To be able to do this only works out when I am capable to makes such CAD drawings myself and that is what is delaying things...I am still learning!

:read:
Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Pictures!

by Rudolf150 @, Sunday, October 18, 2009, 22:06 (3018 days ago) @ Bert

Thanks Bert,

I am sure you will keep us posted when new steps can be shared ...

Good luck ... I thought CAD stands for Computer Aided Design. It seems that the computer needs the Aid :wink: :grin:

Pictures!

by mr.gregdee, Friday, June 11, 2010, 15:23 (2782 days ago) @ Bert
edited by mr.gregdee, Friday, June 11, 2010, 15:29

hi Bert

Nice to see your new project .
I build a few orises years ago for me and a couple of friends
and was not here on your web
quite a while .

Now life force me to give up with my horns
you know - english house - saying just a word :-(

so watching arround I found feastrex spkrs ,
then your diamond cabinets .

i am close to get feasterx 9" units soon
so the question is if your cabs might be
resised for bigger brother too?

Love xover point too - seams like as much as you can gonna be left with feastries;-D

atb

greg:grin:

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by Bert @, Friday, June 11, 2010, 20:27 (2782 days ago) @ mr.gregdee

Hi Greg,

i am close to get feasterx 9" units soon so the question is if your cabs might be resised for bigger brother too?

I have an "oversized" pair here that can hold the 9" Feastrex or any other 8" driver suitable. But it is not small and certainly not useful in a smaller place too...

Sure you can glue them to the back wall for more space in the room... :fool:

Open panel speakers need space if you want to have the best out of them. The best here means freedom of sound and no colouration. Putting them in the corner and too close to the rear wall will destroy most of that and then a "simple" enclosed system tuned for smaller rooms would give a much better end result.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Pictures!

by mr.gregdee, Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 09:25 (2778 days ago) @ Bert
edited by mr.gregdee, Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 09:28

hi Bert
txs for your answer


this room not gonna be such a quite dwarfy
otherway I could not handle it with my hight :grin:
but it is not usual 50 squared meters I am used to live with my horns
let me say - about half of this size to be more precize

let me know the size of them please .
if you could mail me some pictures ,please do
what is optimum distance from the back walls then ?
have you experienced it before ?

you mention the cabinet you have already finished .
let me know your price for ,please .
also let me know if it is possible to get it flat packed for self assembledge ?
and final veneering - it is a playwood one - is not it ?

atb
greg

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