Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup (BD-Design)

by dkalsi, Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 18:54 (2808 days ago)

All,

I am in the process of building a super budget Oris horn system. I have two quick questions:

1) Is there a general consensus on what is the best-value budget driver for the Oris 150 horn (by budget, I mean no more than $500/pair max). If so, please indicate which driver.

2) Has anyone every tried the JBL 2245 driver for bass duty? The driver is very well respected at the Lansing Heritage forums and was used in the much respected JBL 4345 studio monitors (a favorite amount the collectors). In the JBL 4345 system, the 2245H driver was crossed at about 290hz. Many felt that 290hz was too high of a frequency to cross the 18" driver while others felt it transitioned seamlessly to the 10" JBL 2122H. If used with the Oris 150 set-up, I will obviously be crossing it around 150hz. The JBL 2245H is rated at 95db efficiency and more specs can be found here.

The reason why I am inquiring about the JBL 2245H is because I had the opportunity to listen to the Bass Reference cabinet and was not very happy with it's performance (-I hope I am not offending anyone by saying that - it is just a matter or personal taste).

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks,
D

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Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup

by Bert @, Thursday, May 13, 2010, 13:25 (2807 days ago) @ dkalsi

Hello D,

1) Is there a general consensus on what is the best-value budget driver for the Oris 150 horn (by budget, I mean no more than $500/pair max). If so, please indicate which driver.

The Fostex FE206E is a good budget candidate..

The reason why I am inquiring about the JBL 2245H is because I had the opportunity to listen to the Bass Reference cabinet and was not very happy with it's performance (-I hope I am not offending anyone by saying that - it is just a matter or personal taste).

No offence taken but could you give some more background information about the used setup, used driver within the Reference cabinet, placement...

I am only asking to see if it is personal taste and not a wrong implementation of the reference cabinet. This is the first time I hear about somebody not liking their performance...something must be wrong.

Cheers,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup

by dkalsi, Thursday, May 13, 2010, 22:28 (2807 days ago) @ Bert

Bret,

Thanks for responding. I will inquire with the owner and find out the exact driver used in the Bass Reference cabinet and how it was being powered. The bass reference cabinet were used in conjunction with the Orphean Horn+BMS4592 system. The BMS were powered by Cary 45 amps and I believe the bass cabinet were powered by a solid state mean.

My novice opinion was that the Bass Reference cabinets were seriously lacking the "Thump". Hence, I was thinking of potentially using the JBL 2245H (95db)with high power solid state amp and mate it to the Oris 150 w/Fostex 206E + low power 45 SET amp.

Any thoughts?

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Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup

by Bert @, Friday, May 14, 2010, 07:32 (2806 days ago) @ dkalsi

Thanks for responding. I will inquire with the owner and find out the exact driver used in the Bass Reference cabinet and how it was being powered. The bass reference cabinet were used in conjunction with the Orphean Horn+BMS4592 system. The BMS were powered by Cary 45 amps and I believe the bass cabinet were powered by a solid state mean.

If the crossover and tuning was done properly then this should be okay.

My novice opinion was that the Bass Reference cabinets were seriously lacking the "Thump".

Ah, this IS something about taste and acoustical conditions. Basically the Reference with BD15's do not give the "thumb" as this is artificial (usually colouration due to badly tuned bass reflex system or using bass drivers with a high moving mass).

Depth of bass is something else (I am not sure as these things are mostly mixed up in the mind of people). The Reference is a low Q bass system and if more output in the deeper bass is required then this can be electronically done.

Hence, I was thinking of potentially using the JBL 2245H (95db)with high power solid state amp and mate it to the Oris 150 w/Fostex 206E + low power 45 SET amp.

Any thoughts?

I do not see why this should not work. If you are in favour of "heavy" bass instead of articulated bass lines then this should be the way to go for you.

The Fostex drivers will do well in combination with your 45 SET amp except perhaps for limited high frequency output which will only be present on-axis.

Bert (not Bret please...)

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup

by dkalsi, Monday, May 17, 2010, 18:38 (2803 days ago) @ Bert

Bert,

I followed up with my buddy who mentioned that, when I audited the bass reference cabinets, they were attenuated -20db. He did this because he was augmenting his system with a pair of bass horns (with dual 18" drivers in each). He was trying to demo for me how the dual 18" bass horns sound by turning them on/off. What I did not realize was that the whole time we had attenuated the Bass Reference Cabinet by -20db. I think this is precisely why I initially thought the bass reference cabinets were lacking in bas (oops!).

Maybe I need to go over for another listening session.

BTW - a fellow audiophile buddy sold me a pair of Fostex 208E at a price that I could not refuse.

Do you have any suggestions for a bass cabinet design that will mate well with an Oris 150 + Fostex 208 setup?

Thanks,
D

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Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup

by Bert @, Monday, May 17, 2010, 23:22 (2803 days ago) @ dkalsi

Hi D,

Maybe I need to go over for another listening session.

Thanks for clearing that up...

BTW - a fellow audiophile buddy sold me a pair of Fostex 208E at a price that I could not refuse.

You should have refused it, those are not the best choice for using them in a front loaded horn. Sure you can use them but you'll probbaly have to cross them already at 3-5kHz and add a tweeter for the high frequencies. The cheaper FE206E(n) will do better...

Do you have any suggestions for a bass cabinet design that will mate well with an Oris 150 + Fostex 208 setup?

The older Reference bass is good, the new Reference 2010 is a lot better. This bass system will mate very well with anything if properly crossed (integration is the keyword!). The low system reflex tuning and wide range also gives room to use them as subwoofer at the same time (in other words, you do not need a subwoofer with these).

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup

by dkalsi, Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 07:18 (2802 days ago) @ Bert

Bert,

Per your suggestions, I passed on the 208s and ordered a pair of 206s. I was happy to see that they were more in line with my budget.

In regards to the bass cabinet, I saw your thread on the Reference 2010 - very impressive indeed. I also read several other forums and noticed that you have experimented with bass cabinets as size efficient as the bass reference cabinets as well as massive (all-out-assault) horn loaded multiple 15"s.

I am hoping I can find a simple solution. I know that when it comes to this hobby, the Oris 150 + Fostex 206 will get me 90% of the way there, but any additional gains will come with substantial $ investment. For now, I am sure will be happy with just getting to the 90% (at least I have convinced myself that I am heading in the right direction).

I was planning on constructing the bass cabinets myself (in efforts to save money). I would assume the BD15 is the ideal drive with unmatched performance for its price; however, given my budget, they are beyond my reach. I am seeking the next reasonably acceptable alternative. Do you have any experience with drivers that are more readily available in the US market and are less than $400/pair? As mentioned earlier, I plan to construct the cabinets myself.

Thanks for all your help/input.

Cheers,
D

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Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup

by Bert @, Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 10:52 (2802 days ago) @ dkalsi

I am hoping I can find a simple solution. I know that when it comes to this hobby, the Oris 150 + Fostex 206 will get me 90% of the way there, but any additional gains will come with substantial $ investment. For now, I am sure will be happy with just getting to the 90% (at least I have convinced myself that I am heading in the right direction).

You could start with a single bass enclosure as the Oris 150's are going down pretty deep on their own. Not optimal but saving half the costs giving you a good head start...you can always save up and build a second one later.

You will also need an amplifier for the bass (I am not sure if this is clear to you?) so perhaps a simple plate amp with build-in crossover and gain control would be decent solution to find and complete the set?

I can't point to another bass driver... but you could look for one with similar specifications (Qts and Fs) and use that driver instead of the BD15's. This way you can build the same bass enclosure(s) which you can upgrade anytime later..

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Quick questions for an Oris 150 setup

by fu_man @, Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 08:48 (2802 days ago) @ dkalsi

This is the first time I hear about somebody not liking their performance...something must be wrong.

Stated with absolute confidence and conviction... and now perfectly vindicated...nice :grin:

I think this is precisely why I initially thought the bass reference cabinets were lacking in bas (oops!).

good luck with your project D!

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