Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins (BD-Design)

by Paul Folbrecht, Saturday, August 07, 2010, 21:22 (2721 days ago)

I would imagine this ground has been WELL covered and so I apologize, but what are some good choices for powering the bass bins up to 400 Hz or so?

Are gainclones good? IIRC the impedance of the driver is 13-16 ohms and gainclones do not really like high impedances.

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Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Bert @, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 10:56 (2720 days ago) @ Paul Folbrecht

Hi Paul,

Are gainclones good? IIRC the impedance of the driver is 13-16 ohms and gainclones do not really like high impedances.

My experience with GainClones are only good when these are used in the bass but then in combination with decent bass systems (like the previously used Reference but also with the new REF2010) ...

For common subwoofers and their related high moving mass and very low sensitivity then the GainClones might come short but that is more related to their limited output power and then the high impedance does not help...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Hifido, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 14:21 (2720 days ago) @ Bert

Do you still offer your own bass amps Bert? (BD 30's? I believe). Are they similar to gainclones?

hifido.

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Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Bert @, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 20:01 (2720 days ago) @ Hifido

Do you still offer your own bass amps Bert? (BD 30's? I believe). Are they similar to gainclones?

The BD30 is only offered in combination with completed systems as the Black Gate capacitors and their configuration used is limited. Those BG's are not made anymore...

However, I am trying out other quality capacitors to be able to offer the BD30 again for the DIY-er...if these work out good enough then it will be an option (cheaper too!)

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Gasper, Monday, August 09, 2010, 08:31 (2719 days ago) @ Bert

Do you still offer your own bass amps Bert? (BD 30's? I believe). Are they similar to gainclones?


The BD30 is only offered in combination with completed systems as the Black Gate capacitors and their configuration used is limited. Those BG's are not made anymore...

-2...They are MINE :evil:

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Paul Folbrecht, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 15:22 (2720 days ago) @ Bert

Hi Bert,

I did not quite follow that.. my bass system is your Orphean Compact Ref. I do have the optional 150 horns with adapters. So you think a gainclone is Ok?

What is preferable - a gainclone or a PP KT88 amp of about 40W?

Thanks!

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Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Bert @, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 19:57 (2720 days ago) @ Paul Folbrecht

What is preferable - a gainclone or a PP KT88 amp of about 40W?

A proper designed GainClone with sufficient capacity using quality capacitors should be my preference but this depends on the end user.

The GainClone I have in mind is clean, super fast and tight but if you do not like this then a K88 with more "Humph" would be a better choice.

It also depends on which principle you're going to use to feed the amp...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Paul Folbrecht, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 20:55 (2720 days ago) @ Bert

I want tight bass with no overhang. It sounds like these drivers like some damping and so the ultra-high DF of the chip amp is the ticket. I think I'll go that route - thanks.

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Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Bert @, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 21:11 (2720 days ago) @ Paul Folbrecht

It sounds like these drivers like some damping and so the ultra-high DF of the chip amp is the ticket. I think I'll go that route - thanks.

They do not need damping, the system Q is pretty low on its own. The amp should control its own signal and not give overshoot to the driver...then it is real tight in the bass! :cool:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Paul Folbrecht, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 15:37 (2720 days ago) @ Bert

I also have a First Watt F3. This is a superb amp. However, I question whether 15W will do it.

So, either I use the F3 or buy a push-pull KT88 or gain clone.

Is the system impedance above 8 ohms? The chip amps don't even quote power above 8 ohms, I see.

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Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Bert @, Sunday, August 08, 2010, 20:02 (2720 days ago) @ Paul Folbrecht

Is the system impedance above 8 ohms? The chip amps don't even quote power above 8 ohms, I see.

Minimum impedance using the BD15 bass driver is 13 ohm which should not be any problem for a GainClone.

Cheers,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Russell Craig, Monday, August 09, 2010, 22:59 (2719 days ago) @ Paul Folbrecht

Hi Paul,

I'm soon to take delivery a pair of REF 2010 enclosures and am considering what amp to use with them.

Current contenders are either an Audiosector Patek v2 gainclone or a Wyred 4 Sound ST 250.

However, I'm also intrigued by the idea of using a FirstWatt F4 as a booster amp fed with the speker level output of my Yamamoto A-08s via the active crossover with 20hz EQ that Bert is currently developing for the REF 2010.

Given you aready have an F3, the F4 on the bass may just be an extra special combo. Maybe should e-mail Nelson Pass about this? If you do, please share any response here.

PS - I see Nelso has developed his own active crossover with EQ. Could be interesting too.

Cheers,
Russell

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Paul Folbrecht, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 01:32 (2718 days ago) @ Russell Craig

Have tried F5 and prefer F3 - I just prefer single-ended amps. I also think that the higher the efficiency the biggest the advantage of SE of PP. I'm sure F4 could also be great tho.

What's Nelson's xover like? I'm going to go with a Behringer 2496, at least to start. Maybe get it modded.

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Russell Craig, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 09:50 (2718 days ago) @ Paul Folbrecht

Have tried F5 and prefer F3 - I just prefer single-ended amps. I also think that the higher the efficiency the biggest the advantage of SE of PP. I'm sure F4 could also be great tho.

I'm a fan of SE too, but am not committed to them as woofer amps. Just occurs to me that an F3/F4 combo may be very synergistic. The best person to talk to about this would be Nelson.


What's Nelson's xover like? I'm going to go with a Behringer 2496, at least to start. Maybe get it modded.

No idea really. They are a new development and I just noticed them the other day. The B5 prototype ( see http://www.firstwatt.com/b5.html ) looks like it could be ideal. My instinct is that it would be way better than a Behringer.

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by fu_man @, Monday, August 09, 2010, 11:17 (2719 days ago) @ Paul Folbrecht

i wonder whether anyone has tried these

Reckhorn amps from DIY HIFI Supply

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Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Bert @, Monday, August 09, 2010, 12:16 (2719 days ago) @ fu_man

i wonder whether anyone has tried these

They do look interesting (especially for the price quoted!) but never tried them myself. Are these switching amps? The description talks about a huge transformer making it an analog amp...I am not sure. It would be nice to see a picture of the inside and then I can tell if I would like to try one.

It is also a single amp (subwoofer...) so for stereo you'll need 2 of those.

The description is confusing though, especially the various EQ options mentioned as I can only see ONE EQ option on the picture (one knob for selecting the frequency) and that one is basically useless to cure a room problem...

And I never heard a digital amp doing the bass properly either...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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I ordered one A-403 plus 2-B's...

by Bert @, Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 14:57 (2717 days ago) @ Bert

...to check them out myself.

The REF2010 system is tuned in a way that even at very low frequencies high output will be possible so EQ to get more output in the deeper subrange would not harm the BD15's quickly and system performance unless the device does not deliver quality mid-bass or makes noise (too much distortion).

I'll be back... :hi:

Cheers

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

I ordered one A-403 plus 2-B's...

by fu_man @, Saturday, August 14, 2010, 02:31 (2714 days ago) @ Bert


I'll be back... :hi:

..staying tuned..

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Russell Craig, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 21:59 (2718 days ago) @ Paul Folbrecht

Do you already have the woofer enclosures or are you planning on building them?

If the latter is the case, have you considered building the new REF 2010 enclosures using Bert's matrix bracing kit? If you did, then the best option for a crossover would presumably be the one Bert is currently developing that will feature 20hz EQ. This is the path I'm on.

Cheers,
Russell

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by Gasper, Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 13:55 (2717 days ago) @ Russell Craig

...This is the path I'm on.

Me too....:wink:

Amp for Orphean Ultra bass bins

by fu_man @, Saturday, August 14, 2010, 02:29 (2714 days ago) @ Gasper

Thia is the path i had hoped to be on... but alas i'm still trying to find a house... all my hifi is in storage and depending on where I eventually settle I don't know how much space ( or $$$) i may have.
Still super keen to hear of peoples experiences and the ref is still on the long term plans.

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