LCR crossover for Oris Ultra (BD-Design)

by GC, Wednesday, February 16, 2005, 04:18 (4718 days ago)

Hello all,

I'm revisiting crossover project for my Oris Ultra (AER-MD1/BD15).
I've been using Bert's designed RC filter for his AER-MD3/BD15 ever posted and been satisfied with it.
Simulation by Micro-Cap shows rather low frequency of the crossover (around 70Hz?).
Does anyone have any opinion for higher frequency for Ultra, say 200Hz?
Also, does anyone have any experience of more sharper 18dB/Oct passive filter which I want to try?
I'm interested in LCR filter.

Kohjin

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Wednesday, February 16, 2005, 11:56 (4717 days ago) @ GC

Hi Kohjin,

Does anyone have any opinion for higher frequency for Ultra, say 200Hz?

If you cross higher then you'll get more midbass, the present filter is partly EQ for the added horn in front of the BD15. With the horn in front you have an acoustical 18dB roll-off already.

Also, does anyone have any experience of more sharper 18dB/Oct passive
filter which I want to try?

Making the filter steeper will only degrade the sound. The bass becomes "slower", less dynamic and less detailed.

Ciao,

Bert

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Wednesday, February 16, 2005, 13:52 (4717 days ago) @ GC

Hi Bert,

With the horn in front you have an acoustical 18dB roll-off already.

"an acoustical 18dB roll-off"..... I see.
Which should BD15 be in phase or reversed then?

Making the filter steeper will only degrade the sound. The bass becomes
"slower", less dynamic and less detailed.

I just wanted to know how the sound will be with the same phase between both horns which crossover should be oven order, 6dB or 18dB to achieve, what I had learned from Mr. Google.

Kohjin

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Wednesday, February 16, 2005, 15:47 (4717 days ago) @ GC

Hi Kohjin,

"an acoustical 18dB roll-off"..... I see.

In combination with the present RCL filter

Which should BD15 be in phase or reversed then?

The bass in phase and the AER out of phase (if used with SET amplifiers) assuming that most recordings are not correctly made with the proper absolute phase.

I just wanted to know how the sound will be with the same phase between
both horns which crossover should be oven order, 6dB or 18dB to achieve,
what I had learned from Mr. Google.

So, then try it and listen! :-)

You can simply add an extra stage with a resistor and capacitor after the original filter. You can simulate the differences for correct values first and then have a listen...

Ciao,

Bert

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 03:33 (4717 days ago) @ GC

Hello Bert,

Thanks for your kind explanations.

The bass in phase and the AER out of phase

Oops!
I've been used the phase on the contrary, AER in phase and bass out of phase since it started singing.

I had just followed the online manual "Manual ORIS DIY".
FILTERING THE 'ONKEN';
"Both bass drivers need to be connected with inverted phase when the Oris horns are connected in phase."

Is is different in Ultra?
I have reversed them and am going to listen...

BTW, what is the designed crossover frequency you have chosen?

Kohjin

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 10:28 (4716 days ago) @ GC

Hi Kohjin,

I've been used the phase on the contrary, AER in phase and bass out of
phase since it started singing.

That is okay as well. I prefer the sound the other way around if used on a Single Ended amplifier. It also depends on the aboslute phase on the recording (which is never the same).

BTW, what is the designed crossover frequency you have chosen?

I have no idea which frequency it is but the used values are:

[img]images/uploaded/image20.jpg[/img]

Ciao,

Bert

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 22:05 (4716 days ago) @ GC

Hi Bert,

I'd like to find out if this setting of phase sounds better to me too (2A3 Single ended amps).
Oris out of phase, LaScala's in phase and the Bas horn ???

Regards

Werner

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 22:58 (4716 days ago) @ GC

Hi Werner,

Oris out of phase, LaScala's in phase and the Bas horn ???

The bass horns in a way that you hear most bass (best phase position).

Ciao,

Bert

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Germany, Friday, February 18, 2005, 00:14 (4716 days ago) @ GC

Hi,

a good way to hear the PHASE is to use Radionoise.

You can build very easy an PHASESWITCHER with a 5 meter Kabel so you can HEAR A/B on your ListenĂ­ng position.

Dominic

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC @, UK, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 10:37 (4716 days ago) @ GC

Hi Kohjin,

I was also trying to engage others in my note below in cross-overs, but no-one else apart from Bert seems to been experimenting much! Or maybe people are just too busy!

Does anyone have any opinion for higher frequency for Ultra, say 200Hz?
Also, does anyone have any experience of more sharper 18dB/Oct passive
filter which I want to try?
I'm interested in LCR filter.

My bass system is open baffle with an Oris 200/AER-DX4. I started with Bert's old 18db/oct passive line filter driven from the amp. For my set-up the roll-off is too high - lower mids are too "rich".

Recently, I've been playing around with 2nd, 3rd and 4th orders and different frequencies. So far, 4th order seems to be best, but this is active and not passive (i.e. driven from my TVC preamp).

I'll share more later when I have more time.

In the meantime have fun experimenting!

Kind regards,

Jonathan

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 10:49 (4716 days ago) @ GC

Hi Jonathan,

Bert's old 18db/oct passive line filter driven from the amp. For my set-up
the roll-off is too high - lower mids are too "rich".

The boost in the lower mids is caused by the placement and the principle of the open panel, the corner is reacting like a mis tuned "horn". If you would move the bass panel 30-50cm more away from the side walls (making the distance from the side- and back wall different also) this "boosting" effect is reduced a lot.

Ciao,

Bert

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 23:15 (4716 days ago) @ GC

Hi Jonathan,

Bert's old 18db/oct passive line filter driven from the amp. For my

set-up

the roll-off is too high - lower mids are too "rich".


The boost in the lower mids is caused by the placement and the principle
of the open panel, the corner is reacting like a mis tuned "horn". If you
would move the bass panel 30-50cm more away from the side walls (making
the distance from the side- and back wall different also) this "boosting"
effect is reduced a lot.

Ciao,

Bert

Then, Bert, should BOTH my Orisi be OUT of phase, single ended amp, and BOTH woofs in phase?? Regards TT

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 23:25 (4716 days ago) @ GC

Hi Tom,

Then, Bert, should BOTH my Orisi be OUT of phase, single ended amp, and
BOTH woofs in phase?? Regards TT

No, both left and right channels should have an identical phase. If the left channel bass is in phase then the right channel has to be connected the same way.

Ciao,

Bert

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC @, UK, Friday, February 18, 2005, 13:21 (4715 days ago) @ GC

Hi Bert,

The boost in the lower mids is caused by the placement and the principle
of the open panel, the corner is reacting like a mis tuned "horn".

Thanks for that. Actually its a room peak at 125hz, and it happens with many types of speakers!

I just went back to some of my older Behringer Ultra Curve settings and noticed it. I may try a notcth filter, but this may take away more than it adds - usual compromises I guess! It only changes when you move the speakers into the room, the sides don't change much.

Regards,

Jonathan

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LCR crossover for Oris Ultra

by GC, Friday, February 18, 2005, 13:53 (4715 days ago) @ GC

Hi Jonathan,

noticed it. I may try a notcth filter, but this may take away more than it
adds - usual compromises I guess! It only changes when you move the

You could built an acoustical notch, a reflex enclosure(s) tuned to 125Hz and adding dampening material to tune the Q. Place it (them) close to where the peak is most strong (I guess behind the dipoles).

Ciao,

Bert

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