front horn phase reverse

With a Oris 200 in a base 2nd order filter configuration from front-horn amp out to base amp, for the front horn pair of speakers, do I need to reverse the red/black speaker output for each channel (front horn FE206E) to reverse the phase?

I did that based on a suggestion of an internet friend, and the sound imaging widened and deepened playing 1812 etc.

What do you think?

Cheers
Francis

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Hi Francis,

With a Oris 200 in a base 2nd order filter configuration from front-horn
amp out to base amp, for the front horn pair of speakers, do I need to
reverse the red/black speaker output for each channel (front horn FE206E)
to reverse the phase?

If the horn is aligned properly (as with the Compact system) then the phase needs to be reversed for optimal integration.

Ciao,

Bert

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Thks.
No need to reverse the base speakers, right?

Francis

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Francis,

No need to reverse the base speakers, right?

If you reverse these too then nothing changed. Either the horn drivers or the bass drivers need to be reversed in phase, not both.

Ciao,

Bert

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Does the horn phase reverse works if the bass amp is fed from the pre-out ot the intergratd amp?

Regards
Johnson

Francis,

No need to reverse the base speakers, right?

If you reverse these too then nothing changed. Either the horn drivers or
the bass drivers need to be reversed in phase, not both.

Ciao,

Bert

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Does the horn phase reverse works if the bass amp is fed from the pre-out
ot the intergratd amp?

Regards
Johnson

Hi Johnson
Every stage in a amp revere the phase, so if you use a 2 stage amp you have to reverse the phase if you use a 3 stage amp you dont.

Regards Robert

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Hi Johnson,

Does the horn phase reverse works if the bass amp is fed from the pre-out
ot the intergratd amp?

It will work when the final signal from both speakers isn't in the same phase after filtering. Using a pre-amp and another filter as I like them makes it impossible for me to tell how the speakers have to be connected.

The only way to find out how to connect this is to listen, reverse the phase and listen again to hear which setting sounds best.

Ciao,

Bert

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Hi Johnson,

Does the horn phase reverse works if the bass amp is fed from the

pre-out

ot the intergratd amp?

It will work when the final signal from both speakers isn't in the same
phase after filtering. Using a pre-amp and another filter as I like them
makes it impossible for me to tell how the speakers have to be connected.

The only way to find out how to connect this is to listen, reverse the
phase and listen again to hear which setting sounds best.

Ciao,

Bert

yes hearing is the best way to set the phase right
it is easy to hear if the phase is correct you get more body and warmth to your sound
but sometimes it made not such a big difference
then are the phase's not exactly 180 dergrese of each other

but if you use the filter on the speaker outputs of
your main amp as Bert uses then it is easy to hear
Regards Robert

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Helo Bert,

Oris 150 conected in reverse phase too?

Thanks.

Gasper

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Hi Gasper,

Oris 150 conected in reverse phase too?

Yes, if the horn is time aligned with the bass system. If not then the phase must be connected differently (depending on the distance and phase behaviour of that specific system).

Ciao,

Bert

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Hi Gasper,

Oris 150 conected in reverse phase too?

Yes, if the horn is time aligned with the bass system. If not then the
phase must be connected differently (depending on the distance and phase
behaviour of that specific system).

Ciao,

Bert

Dear Bert,

Thanks - one more thing to discover.
Now I am missing some fine detail and clear sound. This "problem" persist since I use bass amps so I was wondering if bad bass behaviour could cause this "problem". Or it is just phase behaviour of Oris 150?. I will test right phase with a test cd.

Regards,
Gasper.

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Hi Gasper,

Now I am missing some fine detail and clear sound. This "problem" persist
since I use bass amps so I was wondering if bad bass behaviour could cause
this "problem". Or it is just phase behaviour of Oris 150?. I will test
right phase with a test cd.

Phase is one, a proper tuned filter is another. A quality amp is preferable and another thing that helps is a proper mains phase... did you try to turn the mains plugs (one at the time) and listen if that improves things?

What type of filter are you using? Any EQ?

Ciao,

Bert

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Hi Gasper,

Now I am missing some fine detail and clear sound. This "problem"

persist

since I use bass amps so I was wondering if bad bass behaviour could

cause

this "problem". Or it is just phase behaviour of Oris 150?. I will test
right phase with a test cd.

Phase is one, a proper tuned filter is another. A quality amp is
preferable

I know...

and another thing that helps is a proper mains phase... did you

try to turn the mains plugs (one at the time) and listen if that improves
things?

I was thinking on that too. I'll try...

What type of filter are you using? Any EQ?

Ciao,

Bert

Thanks,

Gasper.

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Regarding mains orientation - seem to remember using this technique.

Get two spare mains leads, one with the 'polarity' reversed.
Plug each in turn into a bit of kit and using a mains detector (for finding hidden wires in walls) judge the extent of the field surrounding each unit. Select the mains orientation that has the smallest field.
Move on to next bit of kit.

Hope this helps. ;-)

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Hi Chris,

Thanks for the input. You're correct but don't forget to disconnect all RCA, antenna and speaker connections first for optimal "measurements".

Ciao,

Bert

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Hi Chris,

Thanks for the input. You're correct but don't forget to disconnect all
RCA, antenna and speaker connections first for optimal "measurements".

Ciao,

Bert

Good point Bert.
Also forgot to mention to make a note of the orientation of each bit of kit so you dont mix up cables later on. I use a small dot of white 'paint' (Tippex) on all reversed leads and input sockets.
Cheers Chris

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Helo Guys,

Yesterday I made some research and change the mains phase on amp first - what a differrence!
After 2h of listening I changed on CD player too, but it was worse. So I turned cd's mains back.

Thanks both for some nice advises.

Regards,

Gasper.

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Hey Y'all,

The link below describes a method of mains plug orientation which may be useful to some.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0700/plugorientation.htm

Bye,
Don

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Hi Don
Interesting but strange article.

It gets you to measure DC resistances with normal and reversed wiring - all very scientific - then concludes by saying that neither high nor low resistance is a consistent guarantee of good sound and to use your ears.
If that so, then why bother measuring it it?;-) ;-)

Cheers Chris

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Hi Chris,

I don't understand that story either. Measuring DC resistance does not have much to do with the disturbing mains energy. How do you measure any DC-resistance if the ground of the RCA is isolated from the ground?

I think I have to read it again, perhaps I am missing something?

Ciao,

Bert

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Hi Don
Interesting but strange article.

It gets you to measure DC resistances with normal and reversed wiring -
all very scientific - then concludes by saying that neither high nor low
resistance is a consistent guarantee of good sound and to use your ears.
If that so, then why bother measuring it it?;-) ;-)

Hi Chris,

I understood the article for which I provided the link to offer a straightforward, rather objective and simple means of determining the proper mains polarity for audio components. I have read about this method in numerous other magizines and websites. When the author stated that the lowest DC resistance USUALLY provided the best sound he was simply indicating that this method is not infallible, and as always we should trust our own ears.

By the way, Chris, is your method infallible?

Bye,
Don

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Hi Don,

It always worked for me...

Using the help of the mains detector Chris was talking about. I forgot to mention that besides disconnecting all equipment from the tested device the mains should not be connected to the mains ground. If it is then measuring does not help deciding which setting works best.

I will read the article again and see if the DC approach is giving me the same results.... The AC measurements are much more easy to do though and show differences clearly.

Ciao,

Bert

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Hi Don/Bert
I only tried it on a couple of bits of kit so don't have a good idea of the extent of correlation with sound.

I was just passing on a tip I picked up elsewhere, and I did find it quite difficult to judge the boundaries of the field. However my source did not emphasise the removal of inputs or mains earth, so I was probably not carrying out the test to its full potential. :no:

Think I'll give it another go sometime.:-)

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Dear Chris and Bert,

Even though you seemed to find the link I iNocently offered to about as useful as titties on a dead bull in most respects I am gratified that it at least reminded you that components should not be connected to other components when determing proper mains phase. You are both gentlemen and true audiophiles, but then so am I.

Bye,
Don

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front horn phase reverse (BD-Design)