Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded (BD-Design)
Hi,
is it possible (with a good result) to combine this. I had paint a little picture for better understanding.
![[image]](images/uploaded/image19.gif)
I want a "real" Fullrange with only one chasis (no extra Bass/Sub). At the moment I had a "Eckhorn" as Sub. And for mid and high a ORIS 150 with AERs.
Greetings and a happy new Year
Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded
by Bert 
, Saturday, December 31, 2005, 12:50 (6691 days ago) @ Type25
Hi,
is it possible (with a good result) to combine this. I had paint a little
picture for better understanding.
Yes and no. This is already done by Lowther (TP1, Opus one and the Beauhorn... ) but all lack of real bass. It would work better if you would use two drivers, one for the front horn and the other to "boost" the bass. Or use a digital EQ to get more and deeper bass if you do not play too loud.
Still hardly optimal due to the time differences...
Last thing to mention, the light weak paper cones can't handle pressure, pressure needed to get dynamical and clean bass.
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded
by DK , Friday, January 27, 2006, 00:18 (6664 days ago) @ Bert
Last thing to mention, the light weak paper cones can't handle pressure,
pressure needed to get dynamical and clean bass.
I would agree only to a certain extent. It is an opinion that real bass can not be achieved from the horn of reasonable size. But it’s the matter of what real bass and reasonable size are.
I haven’t heard Miroslav’s horn called Veliki (http://hornet.hi-fi.hr/) but he claims that it goes as low as 20 Hz. Attach front horn to it (theoretically 
) and you’ll get something close to initial post drawing.
The technical idea of a horn is to be an acoustic amplifier, so that even tiny vibration is amplified by it. Back loaded horn, as we know, is designed to amplify low end frequency. This is where the size comes into play. Again, as we know, real low frequency can only be achieved by the really big horn. So if you can sacrifice some part you your living room or build the horn into your house behind the walls you may actually achieve fairly good bass. BTW, there are quite few examples for it. So try it up and have fun.
I own a pair of quite good back loaded horns for two years. I love the sound but still building BD15 based subs. If you ask why, I would hesitate to say that it’s only to have my bass improved (it is as well, since my horns are IN the room ). Building something is what DIYs do…
Dmitry
Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded
by Bert , Friday, January 27, 2006, 09:13 (6664 days ago) @ DK
Hi Dmitry,
I would agree only to a certain extent. It is an opinion that real bass
can not be achieved from the horn of reasonable size. But it’s the matter
of what real bass and reasonable size are.
Deep bass produced by a horn itself (I am not talking about room resonances or harmonics/distortion) has to be very big indeed but the quality of that bass also depends on the driver used. Being stiff is one thing because the pressure is very high at the throat.
Try to replace your Lowther for a highly coated (and therefore more stiff) Stamm driver and you'll hear what I mean....
I haven’t heard Miroslav’s horn called Veliki (http://hornet.hi-fi.hr/) but he claims that it goes as low as 20 Hz.
I haven't heard these either (they look very impressive though!) but in that case I can claim that my sub horns (fully build from bricks and cement) go as low as 8Hz (not a typo) and that AER drive units go up to 80kHz.
Not flat though but there is something going on there....
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded
by DK , Friday, January 27, 2006, 18:41 (6664 days ago) @ Bert
I haven’t heard Miroslav’s horn called Veliki
(http://hornet.hi-fi.hr/) but he claims that it goes as low
as 20 Hz.I haven't heard these either (they look very impressive though!) but in
that case I can claim that my sub horns (fully build from bricks and
cement) go as low as 8Hz (not a typo) and that AER drive units go up to
80kHz.Not flat though but there is something going on there....
Come on, I trust people 
. If you say 8 Hz, I believe you.
I know you went crazy building you sub-horns as a part of your house. I wish I could listen to them (if the word listen can be applied to 8Hz ). Do you actually use them often? …and what is the feeling to compare to your BD15 sub?
BTW could you give couple of links to Stamm’s drivers (description, resellers etc.)?
Thanks,
Dmitry
Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded
by Bert , Friday, January 27, 2006, 21:49 (6664 days ago) @ DK
Hi Dmitry,
I know you went crazy building you sub-horns as a part of your house. I
wish I could listen to them (if the word listen can be applied to 8Hz).
Not much is heard but feeling the doors move in that rythm is scary...
Do you actually use them often? …and what is the feeling to compare to your BD15 sub?
Everytime I watch a movie then these subs are active, and that is several times a week. The extreme over capacity and clean reproduction can be very scary sometimes, shaking and pushing me (they fire to my back).
The "normal" BD15 subs do not have that weigth and authority but the tone is similar (both using BD15's).
BTW could you give couple of links to Stamm’s drivers (description,
resellers etc.)?
I am not sure if he is still in the usual business but recently somebody published some contact info on this board. Here is a direct link:
http://www.bd-design.nl/forum/index.php?id=10031#p10055
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded
by DK , Sunday, January 29, 2006, 00:24 (6662 days ago) @ Bert
Everytime I watch a movie then these subs are active, and that is several
times a week...
...you're movie lover I don't have such a luxury (I mean time).
The "normal" BD15 subs do not have that weigth and authority but the tone
is similar (both using BD15's).
...I hope to feel it soon too
Thanks for the info about Stamm drivers. People say that they are longer in production. But I trust you anyways
Regards,
Dmitry
Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded
by Bert , Monday, January 30, 2006, 08:57 (6661 days ago) @ DK
Hi Dmitry,
...you're movie lover
If I do not sit frequently to listen to music and watch movies from time to time then I am going mad. Work is fun and needed but time to relax is just as important to keep "running" eh?
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Combine Frontloaded and Backloaded
by Gasper , Saturday, December 31, 2005, 15:26 (6691 days ago) @ Type25
Hello :wink:
I agree with Bert, but see this project:
http://www.geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/single_driver.html
Regards,
Gasper.