External HDD for jukebox (Off Topic)

by DeMarko @, Saturday, July 15, 2006, 14:10 (4209 days ago)

Dear Forum members,

Does anyone have experience with connecting external hard drive with music to a notebook that, in its turn, is connected to the DAC / TwinDac.

I now have 3.5" HDD external, connected to the notebook. Since this external HDD is connected to the mains, I get additional noise, very audible. For this reason, I prefer to listen to music from the internal hard drive but its capacity surely isn't enough.

I want to switch to 2.5" external HDD not only because they are quiter than 3.5" but also because I don't need to connect it to the mains and theoretically USB power is enough.

My questions:
1. would USB power be enough to run the external 2.5" HDD.

2. also, here both the music data and the power are transmitted via the same cable, does it influence the data quality, adds additional "noise" or anything like that????

3. some external 2.5" HDD cases use 2 USB ports / 2 cables. Would that be better or worse for the data quality? Or will it add more noise and complications?

Thank you,
Dmitry.

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External HDD for jukebox

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, July 16, 2006, 13:03 (4208 days ago) @ DeMarko

Hi Dmitry,

Without answering your questions ... I wouldn't connect things like that;
With your notebook as given fact for the playing machine, I'd use ethernet to get the data from another PC, that PC internally or externally having the large HDD.

Peter

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External HDD for jukebox

by DeMarko @, Sunday, July 16, 2006, 13:22 (4208 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Hi Peter,

I was just wondering how I could do it. Can you, PLEASE, explain how it is done effectively. Thank you!

Dmitry.

Hi Dmitry,

Without answering your questions ... I wouldn't connect things like that;
With your notebook as given fact for the playing machine, I'd use ethernet
to get the data from another PC, that PC internally or externally having
the large HDD.

Peter

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External HDD for jukebox

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, July 16, 2006, 16:59 (4208 days ago) @ DeMarko

Hi Dmitry,

First you have this other PC. Connect your external HDD to that.
Then connect an Ethernet cable (must be "crossed" when no hub etc. is in between) from the PC to your laptop. When both have the same Workgroup Name, both will show echother under Networkplaces.
At the PC with the external HDD make that drive shared.
At the laptop go to Explorer, Tools and Map Network Drive. There you will see the HDD (it's Share Name as given earlier). Make a Drive Letter for it (like N:).
From now on you can select the files on the HDD.

Is this what you meant ?
About "effectively" ... it needs this other PC of course ...:wink:

Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,

I was just wondering how I could do it. Can you, PLEASE, explain how it is
done effectively. Thank you!

Dmitry.

Hi Dmitry,

Without answering your questions ... I wouldn't connect things like

that;

With your notebook as given fact for the playing machine, I'd use

ethernet

to get the data from another PC, that PC internally or externally

having

the large HDD.

Peter

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External HDD for jukebox

by DeMarko @, Sunday, July 16, 2006, 17:32 (4208 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Thank you very very much, Peter!

I have just done it via wireless connection. I have two computers connected to the Internet via a router.

Anyway, I now can play files from the other computer via wireless. My first impression is that there aren't much difference between playing from the internal notebook drive and the external computer (or even external HDD connected via USB2.0 to this external computer). This is the first impression however.

BUT! It takes a long time / pause between songs to buffer the entire song into Foobar via the wireless. I presume this is not the problem if you connect via a network cable???
Also, would there be noticeable difference between wireless and network cable connection??? Any thoughts or experience with this?

If anyone has experimented with different connections, please comment. Would be interesting to know differences between:
- internal HDD
- external HDD connected via USB 2.0
- network connection described above
- wireless connection described above

- Also do USB hubs degrade the sound??

Thank you,
Dmitry.

Hi Dmitry,

First you have this other PC. Connect your external HDD to that.
Then connect an Ethernet cable (must be "crossed" when no hub etc. is in
between) from the PC to your laptop. When both have the same Workgroup
Name, both will show echother under Networkplaces.
At the PC with the external HDD make that drive shared.
At the laptop go to Explorer, Tools and Map Network Drive. There you will
see the HDD (it's Share Name as given earlier). Make a Drive Letter for it
(like N:).
From now on you can select the files on the HDD.

Is this what you meant ?
About "effectively" ... it needs this other PC of course ...:wink:

Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,

I was just wondering how I could do it. Can you, PLEASE, explain how it

is

done effectively. Thank you!

Dmitry.

Hi Dmitry,

Without answering your questions ... I wouldn't connect things like

that;

With your notebook as given fact for the playing machine, I'd use

ethernet

to get the data from another PC, that PC internally or externally

having

the large HDD.

Peter

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0

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External HDD for jukebox

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Sunday, July 16, 2006, 18:23 (4208 days ago) @ DeMarko

Hi again,

First of all, this was about avoiding your noise, as you talked about. That should differ now ... (?).

Secondly, Wifi is very slow (say 54Mbit max (but often 11) opposed to the internal harddisk or even USB 2.0), and also the ethernet cable is 100Mbit only. I'm not sure how you play, but without buffer (!) and gapless, I think it can be so that there's no gap between songs because Foobar arranges for that. When you play via a buffer however, the next song is loaded when the first is finished, and *then* you have to wait (longer now !).

Personally I wouldn't use USB because the DAC is USB connected.
OTOH, I wouldn't even use the USB connection, but that can be achieved only when you have a setup like I have (external soundcard etc. etc.). The fun is, *then* you are allowed to use USB for the HDD again ...

I also wouldn't use the ethernet network connection (Wifi or Cable) because it's slow. Also I'm not sure what happens to jitter then, though some like the jitter induced by ethernet.

Although I didn't think it would be true, I experienced at Bert's place that a USB cable by itself can make a huge difference. So from that follows that a hub will influence as well (and probably not for the better :grin: ).
For Firewire that's probably the same, although I didn't experience that so far (I have a 10m Firewire el cheapo cable to the soundcard).

Lastly about playing via the internal HDD ... what to say. I too now play via the memory (the buffer, NOT the ramdisk, which just introcuses an extra step !!), and so far I'd say it's better.

Dmitry, all is very complex, and in fact so much related to "a" system, that it's hard to give a good advise, and in fact wrong to just try to copy one's setup. The fact that I don't use the TwinDAC's USB input already makes a large difference (for the possibilities of the other setup stuff).

Peter

Thank you very very much, Peter!

I have just done it via wireless connection. I have two computers
connected to the Internet via a router.

Anyway, I now can play files from the other computer via wireless. My
first impression is that there aren't much difference between playing from
the internal notebook drive and the external computer (or even external HDD
connected via USB2.0 to this external computer). This is the first
impression however.

BUT! It takes a long time / pause between songs to buffer the entire song
into Foobar via the wireless. I presume this is not the problem if you
connect via a network cable???
Also, would there be noticeable difference between wireless and network
cable connection??? Any thoughts or experience with this?

If anyone has experimented with different connections, please comment.
Would be interesting to know differences between:
- internal HDD
- external HDD connected via USB 2.0
- network connection described above
- wireless connection described above

- Also do USB hubs degrade the sound??

Thank you,
Dmitry.

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External HDD for jukebox

by DeMarko @, Sunday, July 16, 2006, 18:50 (4208 days ago) @ PeterSt.

Oh, yeah, interesting stuff.

I am now sooo excited about this wifi setup:) It does introduces long wait time for song buffering but it is so easy to use now!
So far, this WIFI connection is better than when I connect via USB to the external 3.5" HDD which is AC powered. And no noise, of course.

I will at some point have a chance to compare this wifi connection to the USB connected 2.5" drive (without the AC I hope - the question still remains to be answered by someone with experience:)

First, I need to purchase this HDD + the an external case. Samsung 120gb + Sarotech Cutie FX case I will probalby go for.

You are right, of course, about the system influence. Still, interesting to hear about other people's experience. Today, you inspired me to try something different and to see for myself! :)

Thank you,
Dmitry.

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External HDD for jukebox

by Eddie @, Wednesday, July 19, 2006, 23:45 (4205 days ago) @ DeMarko

Hello DeMarko,

Here is what I did in more or less the same situation.

Does anyone have experience with connecting external hard drive with music
to a notebook that, in its turn, is connected to the DAC / TwinDac.

I have an Acer laptop with a LaCie hard disk of 250 GB and a Twindac. Both are connected to the laptop via USB.

I now have 3.5" HDD external, connected to the notebook. Since this
external HDD is connected to the mains, I get additional noise, very
audible.

My laptop and harddisk are in a wooden box with ventilation openings in the bottom and in the back. I here no noise whatsoever from them at my listening position.

I want to switch to 2.5" external HDD not only because they are quiter
than 3.5" but also because I don't need to connect it to the mains and
theoretically USB power is enough.

I have another option: recently I installed 1 GB of RAM additional. I now copy a complete CD from the harddisk to a RAM-disk (takes almost 30 seconds) and than play it with Foobar. This gives a much better sound quality and the harddisk is not even used during the playback. For the best sound quality I further recommend the ASIO driver from http://www.usb-audio.com./ (as Bert did recently).

Enjoy your music!
Eddie

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External HDD for jukebox

by DeMarko @, Saturday, July 22, 2006, 10:53 (4202 days ago) @ Eddie

Eddie!

Thank you for the reply.

One remark, though. The noise, or more noise, comes from the speakers, not from the HDD. And it is connected to the fact that the 3.5" HDD case is by itself connected to the mains. That's why I was thinking of getting rid of that additional connection to the mains by switching to 2.5" HDD fed by USB from the laptop only. But this brings additional questions of course:)

Dmitry

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External HDD for jukebox

by GC, Saturday, July 22, 2006, 07:53 (4202 days ago) @ DeMarko

I have done exactly that with one exception. I use firewire to connect my 2.5" drives to my ibook. They are pretty quiet, small enough to conceal and run off of bus power. This way I can run everything of batteries. I've been running like this for a while with no problems at all.
Steve

Dear Forum members,

Does anyone have experience with connecting external hard drive with music
to a notebook that, in its turn, is connected to the DAC / TwinDac.

I now have 3.5" HDD external, connected to the notebook. Since this
external HDD is connected to the mains, I get additional noise, very
audible. For this reason, I prefer to listen to music from the internal
hard drive but its capacity surely isn't enough.

I want to switch to 2.5" external HDD not only because they are quiter
than 3.5" but also because I don't need to connect it to the mains and
theoretically USB power is enough.

My questions:
1. would USB power be enough to run the external 2.5" HDD.

2. also, here both the music data and the power are transmitted via the
same cable, does it influence the data quality, adds additional "noise" or
anything like that????

3. some external 2.5" HDD cases use 2 USB ports / 2 cables. Would that be
better or worse for the data quality? Or will it add more noise and
complications?

Thank you,
Dmitry.

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External HDD for jukebox

by DeMarko @, Saturday, July 22, 2006, 10:57 (4202 days ago) @ GC

Thank you Steve!

3. some external 2.5" HDD cases use 2 USB ports / 2 cables. Would that

be

better or worse for the data quality? Or will it add more noise and
complications?

This gives me another idea. Use USB for data transfer and Firewire for additional power... hm

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