oris reference ultra (Oris Horns)

by horn150 @, Tuesday, September 19, 2006, 20:30 (4137 days ago)

hello

has one of you heard/built this speaker??
long ago I listened to bert's oris 150 ar his place and was not convinced : bass did not match the qualities and the sound was a bit in your face for our tastes
but we hope things have improved for a few years

thanks inadvance for your opinions

gilles

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oris reference ultra

by Bert @, Wednesday, September 20, 2006, 09:26 (4136 days ago) @ horn150

Hi Gilles,

long ago I listened to bert's oris 150 ar his place and was not convinced: bass did not match the qualities and the sound was a bit in your face for our tastes but we hope things have improved for a few years

When were you here at my place and to what did you listen in those days?

Something like this?

http://www.arduman.com/aa/Sayfalar/bert/bert.htm

From my point of view things have improved dramatically over the last years...

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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oris reference ultra

by horn150 @, Wednesday, September 20, 2006, 11:36 (4136 days ago) @ Bert

hi bert

if my memory is right that's the system we heard with my wife so any feedback about the oris reference ultra or what are the main areas of improvement

gilles

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oris reference ultra

by Bert @, Wednesday, September 20, 2006, 11:53 (4136 days ago) @ horn150

Hi Gillis,

if my memory is right that's the system we heard with my wife so any feedback about the oris reference ultra or what are the main areas of improvement

The main areas? Basically everything....

Nowadays I use AER drive units with improved phase plugs in them providing much more natural sound and being less in your face compared to the configuration with Lowthers used back then. The bass is now time aligned with the same character at the crossover range making the system sound like one loudspeaker due to the optimal integration.

The Oris Reference Ultra with the Orphean horns on top will be the least direct sounding system with most detail and less colouration.

You should come over soon and have a listen to refresh your reference around the Oris horns... :smile:

Ciao,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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oris reference ultra

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Wednesday, September 20, 2006, 11:51 (4136 days ago) @ horn150

Allow me to jump in;

and the sound was a bit in your face for our tastes

Gilles, it depends on what you exactly mean with this.

If I try to translate this literally ("in your face") I can imagine that you mean something like a, say, too "hard" point in space where the sound emerges from. Especially with the bass this was exactly my experience at Bert's place, *and* it was my gerenal complaint. As Bert knows, I judged this as a phenomenon which is from a technical point of view GREAT, but as "weird" as can be at the same time. Remember, just my personal judgement about longer wave bass tones, IMO never expressing themselves at 10cm2 somewhere in front of you but at Bert's place they did.

Now two remarks :

First it was the Oris I listened to (some 6 months ago), while now there is the Orphean.
Second this will be about Bert's room which could be a little to "dead" for my taste.

In my house, there's no such "anomalie" with the Orpean (in Swing enclosure).
I must emphasize though that I have many reflections which IMO attribute to LARGELY to the DEPTH of the sound getting less pinpointed. Remember, depth only, not width. The depth expresses over several meters, by which I mean that one (bass) instrument isn't audible at 417 cm in front of you only, but that it's audible from, say, 250cm - 500cm in front of you.

Of course this depends on personal taste, although it also depends on how reality really is. Thus, this comes to the question : will you be able to pinpoint a 35Hz tone, produced from a SINGLE point as a matter of distance from you. To a certain degree the answer will be Yes, but then the question is : what is that "degree".
With a multi point source all is different. With this, and very exact time alignment which comes to exact phase, it will theoretically be possible to add up waves at some place in space, and because of the several dB more emerging from that, you will be able to pinpoint that "source" in space.
Note : like it is just the same possible to hear a standing wave from a distance (well, I can).

Beware : above is not a scientifical explanation, and instead it's just how things come to me, an trying to find explanations for this in fact super duper phenomenon coming from Bert's speakers in the basis.

Besides all, the other day I found a rather interesting experiment;

To understand this, first assume that room anomalies can be solved by nothing less as "proper sound" (whatever that is for now). Thus, standing waves, disturbing (! like harsh highs) reflections etc. will be adudibly sufficiently eliminated when *all* is allright.

There's my room, and all is allright ...
From anywhere in the room -as long as you are properly in the visible beam of the mouth of the horns- there are no disturbances (but, the sweatspot giving the best results as always);
Now the experiment is this :
Sit down in between the speakers, but in te opposite direction. In my room -which generally is just feasable for the sake of reverberations- you will here HUGE reverbs (the room is 12 meters long, and at the opposite side nothing is square or straight, but there are many glass and metal parts). It's really like being in a church or worse.

It's these reverberations which will give the stage it's depth, and which makes you be in the middle of the music really.
Do note however, that when at any distance from the speakers and normally faced to them, there is no way that you will be able to determine these reverberations. It has become part of the sound now and it just creates depth.

At doing this experiment, you will learn what your room really does for reflections *and* it will give you the basis for experimenting with it.
Although I didn't try it, I am near sure that when Bert does this experiment, he will hardly hear reflections. And in this case (and IMO) this is not because of the damping material on the walls besides the speakers, but because of all the messy stuff at the opposite of the room. Including an absorbing subwoofer btw.

Remember, when the sound is not "good" as I imply, don't start doing this; when nature is out of order, and phase is wrong all over the place, reflections are audible (!) all over the place.

One other thing :
I am 100% sure that proper sonic behaviour of all in the chain, which includes micro data so important for placement of instruments etc., will DRASTICALLY improve the reverberation act in positive means.
Completely out of my control, once in a while my system contains all these good sonic characteristics, and really all music suddenly plays in a huge space. Beware, without disturbing reverbs, and just the size of the room /hall / etc. where the musicians are grow bigger. And because (generally) you will never know how large the hall was, it's not disturbing you.

My conclusion : the listening room MUST have enough reflections (any frequency) in order to let Bert's beautiful speakers express nature.
What my adoption of nature is, is another thing, so keep in mind that could be subjective.
When you want pinpointed bass response, make the room as dry as possible. It's an experience by itself, which came to me as WOWWWWWWW ... but not much nature. DO NOTE that this has nothing - really nothing to do with individual vibes of a snare etc. being audible. I mean, it seems logic to think that that will go away at less pinpointing. But it doesn't work like that.
But here too, and never to forget, in a room with no disturbing reflections and standing waves in the first place ... to be solved by good sound (and not by means of damping).

Gilles, possibly you meant something else, but I liked to write this anyway.
With Bert's speakers you can twist all to your likings, because the speakers themselves are just good.

Peter

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oris reference ultra

by horn150 @, Saturday, September 23, 2006, 10:33 (4133 days ago) @ PeterSt.

hi peter

thrown in your face" means to us that it sounds a bit aggressive in the mid high frequencies and in the long run listening is tiring not that enjoyable; we listened to bert's system 5 years ago and he seems to understand what we mean and to also have made much progress; the second criticism concerned bass integration, the bassunit at that time laggingg behind the horn!
whre are you located? which version do you use

gilles

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oris reference ultra

by PeterSt. ⌂ @, Netherlands, Saturday, September 23, 2006, 15:22 (4133 days ago) @ horn150

whre are you located? which version do you use

Hi Gilles,

I'm live in Holland, some 25 Km away from Bert's place.
Currently I'm "using" the Swings with Orphean from Bert.

Peter

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