Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout (BD-Design)
hi all
Trends TA10 has won a digital shootout, including comparison to Nuforce amp's.
here the link :
http://www.stereomojo.com/SHOOTOUT2007INTEGRATEDS.htm
No wonder, i am quit satisfied with it. 
Angelo
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by Bert 
, Thursday, April 05, 2007, 17:39 (6241 days ago) @ angeloitacare
Angelo,
no wonder, i am quit satisfied with it.
I wonder why the differences were so minor in those tests...a little bit this and a little bit that is all I read?
This does not convince me at all... probably because there was some lack of playback resolution?
Will do the NuForce SE this weekend against the LadyDay and I can even throw in the Sonic T as I have that one here playing my rear channels...
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
hi Bert
it's true, i wonder it too, as the difference here between my Viva and the Trends is hudge. Can it be, because their speakers are not so revealing, as the Orpheans ?
Angelo
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by Bert , Thursday, April 05, 2007, 18:14 (6241 days ago) @ angeloitacare
Angelo,
it's true, i wonder it too, as the difference here between my Viva and the
Trends is hudge. Can it be, because their speakers are not so revealing, as
the Orpheans ?
You can bet your TA10 on that... 
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by PeterSt. 
, Netherlands, Saturday, April 07, 2007, 10:49 (6239 days ago) @ Bert
Will do the NuForce SE this weekend against the LadyDay and I can even
throw in the Sonic T as I have that one here playing my rear channels...
I will throw in a PS Audio GCC100 as a replacement of the planned UcD700 which sadly isn't ready yet ...
Peter
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
So how did the listening go. Any conclusions yet?
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by Bert , Tuesday, April 10, 2007, 17:34 (6236 days ago) @ unknown
Hi Chris,
So how did the listening go. Any conclusions yet?
No completed conclusion yet, simply because 2 amps were not present...
Still missing the Redwine Signatures and the UcD's to complete our listening test.
I am still happy with my LadyDays. Not because they are better in general but because the other amps did do some things I do not like.
My personal conclusions:
- The Sonic-T sounds like a toy (with switching power supply)
- The NuForce 9SE made too much noise (hiss, radio signals , etc.) both within my system and at Peter's place and showed sibilance (kind of adding things in the highest frequencies that should not have been there, probably the noise generating this).
- The PS-Audio GCC didn't sound open enough, not breathing.
The above are (for me) the unacceptable negative things when compared to the LadyDys but for the rest (except for the Sonic T) they all showed improvements from which some were not even small...
Ciao,
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by PeterSt. , Netherlands, Wednesday, April 11, 2007, 03:27 (6236 days ago) @ Bert
edited by unknown, Wednesday, April 11, 2007, 03:34
Hi,
I can add that we were very seriously listening for two full days at least, indeed in two different places, and the NuForce definitly miserably failed for technical reasons. Note that all together (also at other sessions) we tried 3 differenc NuForce sets, and they all behave the same for their own radiating stupidities.
For me the NuForce has something that I didn't hear from other amps so far, which comes down to increadible speed. We expect, though, that it gets it from the switching power, with a technique which just fails.
The bass is more fuzzy, and although you can listen to this amp like a rather "normal" amp, for me it doesn't have it ... This might be personal, because I was alone on this (out of three seriously listening people).
Also, to be it is clear that this amp behaves differently in the different frequency ranges, which already can be derived from the fact that it wouldn't be the best in a setup other amps consistently are (this is about the GC version (of which I have many by now) and the filter setup of the speakers). Also, where the whole net agrees about the bass being good and the highs being strange, I judge it the other way around. Note the sibilance though, which for me is so anoying that I can't stand it as a "feature".
The PS Audio is very much like a solid state amp. But better. It sounds kind of technical, and I could like it.
There is not much wrong with it, apart from the fact that it doesn't show some "instruments" very well. This is nothing like some frequencies not being pronounced, but merely "too technical" to pronounce the instruments as they really are. I wasn't really disturbed by it, being a more technical listener (I know, you can explain this as a contradiction).
The reason why I will not choose this amp today, is that the NuForce shows things which IMO can exist in other normally operating amps. For that matter, the PS Audio is not so speedy (at all), where I think beautiful things emerge from.
I learned that it is possible to hear (and "see") the individual vibrations of a cymbal like the hi-hat, which is one step further than hearing the proper color of a cymbal. For me this is a new dimension the NuForce could show, which I personally would hunt for.
If it is so, that these real life vibrations are created with the help of the sibilance (hence can't exist withhout it for mucic playback), I'd go for it. My current SS amps have sibilance too, and the only drawback of it, is that it reminds you of "digital". The PS Audio does not show sibilance at all.
Peter
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by takman , Thursday, April 12, 2007, 10:58 (6234 days ago) @ Bert
Interesting stuff. Were the amps well broken in at the time of testing?
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by Bert , Thursday, April 12, 2007, 11:02 (6234 days ago) @ takman
Interesting stuff. Were the amps well broken in at the time of testing?
No worries, we know what we are doing... :wink:
The two amps we were testing are well broken in. Both being demo amps and used many hours before we received them. Both amps were also connected to the mains for at least 48 hours...
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by takman , Thursday, April 12, 2007, 11:53 (6234 days ago) @ Bert
Sorry for doubting you!
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by Bert , Thursday, April 12, 2007, 12:07 (6234 days ago) @ takman
Sorry for doubting you!
Next week I will have the Redwine Signature here. Pity that the other two amps are then not present anymore but we played with those a lot to know what these were all about...
Bert
--
BD-Design - Only the Best!
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by takman , Thursday, April 12, 2007, 12:33 (6234 days ago) @ Bert
Terrific. I'd be very interested in hearing your impressions.
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by leifchristensen , Thursday, April 12, 2007, 15:54 (6234 days ago) @ takman
I personally put my money on the Lady Day solution
Best
Leif
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by PeterSt. , Netherlands, Thursday, April 12, 2007, 15:56 (6234 days ago) @ leifchristensen
Leif, why ? (just curious)
Peter
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
It's going to be an exciting competition: Tripath against Hypex against 300B 
(did I loose a SS competitor?)
Why not to make things more interesting asking a comparison with specific music pieces we know well? This way comments can be specific and instructive.
Myself I propose Mahler's 2nd symphony third mouvement (tremendous dynamic extension and very complex execution) and a well recorded string quartet.
Bert could select the listening list in advance, so we can serch for that music in time and get it in a legal way
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by PeterSt. , Netherlands, Thursday, April 12, 2007, 18:31 (6234 days ago) @ Giovanni
Giovanni,
The LadyDay wasn't a competitor; just a reference.
Let's say "somehow" we are after the Class-D/T thing, just because it has "things" other amps do not have (main thing is speed and therewith a kind of resolution other amps don't have).
Regards,
Peter
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
Let's say "somehow" we are after the Class-D/T thing, just because it has
"things" other amps do not have (main thing is speed and therewith a kind
of resolution other amps don't have).
I made already such comparison with my 41Hz AMP5 and my UCD180ad with reference to my brother's tube amps Dr. Klimo Kent + Merlin pre. The conclusion is what you reported above, but it is NOT taken for granted when I report these results in diyAudio forum. Besides, I found speed and resolution far better in Tripath chips then UCD180ad, so I made UCD people get angry....
But I've not your systems, for that I'm so interested to your comments.
Who knows ?
Hi all in this thread.
I can only put the same comments in the basket of what Peter and Bert already quoted.
I should though say, that if the NF's had any control of it's own noise,....(and I caNot understand why they (NF) release an amp with such problems and just turn their back to the problem and let it go), it would propably have been a winner among the whole gang?
It's RFI noise and other funny behaviours are just too much. Here in Belgrade I didn't experience any RFI noice on my 112/db's with the NF's, but a lot of other anomalities..enough to kick them out. The sound were however far far better than my Border Patrols.
But participating in the test gang in Holland showed a completely differnt world to me (out of the topic however, but if anyone have curious questions: put them in another then) that Peters newest players for XP and Vista is just, and must be, a shock to all who could listen to it. It is no less than a miracle to digital play-back. Wooooow! :biglol: A MIRACLE.
I'll post my opinion about the Red Wine Sig's as soon as it's burned in here.
GC
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by PeterSt. , Netherlands, Thursday, April 12, 2007, 19:22 (6234 days ago) @ angeloitacare
Hi Angelo,
I'd like to put your findings in the context of this : http://www.stereomojo.com/AmpSHOOTOUTPowerAmps.htm
IOW, you presented the integrated shootout, while at the same time there was a power shootout.
I don't know what to do with it, but I bumped into it, and so I thought to share it.
Peter
Trends TA10 is winner at digital amp shootout
by fu_man , Friday, April 13, 2007, 06:21 (6234 days ago) @ PeterSt.
This may be of interest too... A group of guys who know what they like, comparing a well respected tube amp with the Red Wine Audio Sig 30.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/outside1/outside.html
BTW, The RWA sig 30 is reported to perform best after about 200hrs burn in. My experience was a very noticeable change over the first 100 or so hours.