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Reference 2010 (BD-Design)

by Bert @, Saturday, March 27, 2010, 12:31 (2858 days ago)

Hi all,

The new Reference 2010 providing the base for deep, clean, tight and dynamical bass (if used with a high quality driver like the BD15 for which this version is designed of course)

See picture...

[image]

Cheers,

Bert

Note: The type of construction used here might be "over_the_top" for some but for people who actualy heard it or own a system based on the same principle will tell you differently, they do not want anything else...

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Reference 2010.. my question / request!

by fu_man @, Sunday, March 28, 2010, 14:10 (2857 days ago) @ Bert

wow!
I HOPE you are planning to make available the CNC parts by themselves... with the front, back and sides supplied by the purchaser to keep shipping weight down.

these are so cool! :cool:

Oh one more question.. (i have sort of asked this before...) could these be mounted lying down on their sides?(on small stands) I.e. is it of critical importance to have the driver a certain height off the floor, or say a need to have the front baffle touching the floor?

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Reference 2010.. my question / request!

by Bert @, Sunday, March 28, 2010, 15:54 (2857 days ago) @ fu_man

Hi fu_man,

I HOPE you are planning to make available the CNC parts by themselves... with the front, back and sides supplied by the purchaser to keep shipping weight down.

The front and rear panels are there for guidance but if people think that they can manage without then why bother them with the extra weight?

these are so cool! :cool:

Yes, they actually are don't they... :yes:

Oh one more question.. (i have sort of asked this before...) could these be mounted lying down on their sides?(on small stands) I.e. is it of critical importance to have the driver a certain height off the floor, or say a need to have the front baffle touching the floor?

This is not the most critical but you'll probably have to adjust the bass differently.

Cheers,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Reference 2010.. my question / request!

by fu_man @, Monday, March 29, 2010, 15:20 (2856 days ago) @ Bert

This is not the most critical but you'll probably have to adjust the bass differently.

I'm not sure what you mean: this ugly 10 second photoshop jobs shows my intention. (Would be still 2 separate cabinets) I want them as close to your specifications as possible just sitting in a horizontal format so they can slide in below my horns. Could have a 'spacer' in-between to get more separation of the drivers

[img]images/uploaded/201003291508244bb0a6487948a.jpg[/img]

oooh... sorry for this ugly pic :blush: I promise i won't actually mash your beautiful design like this!

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Yes, I understood what you meant...

by Bert @, Monday, March 29, 2010, 17:32 (2856 days ago) @ fu_man

...and therefore the answer is the same. Some more space in between would be nice though... :grin:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Reference 2010.. my question / request!

by Russell Craig, Monday, March 29, 2010, 09:06 (2856 days ago) @ fu_man

I HOPE you are planning to make available the CNC parts by themselves... with the front, back and sides supplied by the purchaser to keep shipping weight down.

Noooooooo!....:no: I hope for the opposite. I want to purchase everything - bracing, cabinet panels,pedestals/spikes, port tubes, fixings etc. I don't care how much I pay in shipping - I want the convenience of everything turning up in one shipment so that I don't have to deal with anyone else other than perhaps a cabinet maker to veneeer them. Bert could offer both a complete cabinet kit and a matrix only kit.

Bert - these look pretty awesome. One question - how will the BD-15 mod kit fix to the baffle so that one can build a "Reference Ultra 2010"?

Russell

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Don't worry...

by Bert @, Monday, March 29, 2010, 10:27 (2856 days ago) @ Russell Craig

Hi Russell,

Bert could offer both a complete cabinet kit and a matrix only kit.

Bert will offer anything to make the life of a DIY-er more easy. From the basic parts up to anything else you do not want to be bothered with.

Even fully asembled and finished into whatever state you want it and take it over...
Drawings (internals) will not be published though in case somebody starts to wonder about that. :secret:

One question - how will the BD-15 mod kit fix to the baffle so that one can build a "Reference Ultra 2010"?

I will have pictures soon, those will explain it all and a lot more easy than I could describe in words.

Cheers,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Don't worry...

by Russell Craig, Monday, March 29, 2010, 16:50 (2856 days ago) @ Bert

Bert will offer anything to make the life of a DIY-er more easy. From the basic parts up to anything else you do not want to be bothered with.

Bert is my patron saint and hero :wave:

I will have pictures soon, those will explain it all and a lot more easy than I could describe in words.

:bass:

Reference 2010.. my question / request!

by fu_man @, Monday, March 29, 2010, 14:54 (2856 days ago) @ Russell Craig

Noooooooo!....:no: I hope for the opposite. I want to purchase everything -

heh heh I didn't mean to panic you Russell!
Me too! I WANT to purchase everything, but the matrix is likely to be much more feasible. Plus... I can't resist a little bit of personalisation... but I want it to be strictly aesthetic, as much as I can help it.

Anyway ,looks like Berts on everyone's side!

What city are you in BTW? Guessing Wellywood?

Reference 2010.. my question / request!

by Russell Craig, Monday, March 29, 2010, 16:52 (2856 days ago) @ fu_man

What city are you in BTW? Guessing Wellywood?

"Oh I wish I was in Wellington..."

Nope - in Hong Kong these days but maybe moving to London soon. I'm visualising myself hiring a car to go pick up a kitset from Bert.

Where are you?

Cheers

Reference 2010.. my question / request!

by fu_man @, Monday, March 29, 2010, 22:53 (2856 days ago) @ Russell Craig

"Oh I wish I was in Wellington..."

Nope - in Hong Kong these days but maybe moving to London soon. I'm visualising myself hiring a car to go pick up a kitset from Bert.

Oh my mistake... :shame:

Well I see why you want the full kit now... not a lot of backyard space in HK for DIY projects, and anyway it's only a 1/4 way around the world for shipping. And London... you would be mad not to!

Where are you?

I'm in Auckland ... that's pretty close to the other side of the world. (actually I think Seville, Spain is our antipodal city)

Do you have a price in mind yet?

by samoore @, Monday, March 29, 2010, 02:27 (2857 days ago) @ Bert
edited by Bert, Tuesday, November 19, 2013, 11:23

- No text -

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Not yet...

by Bert @, Monday, March 29, 2010, 07:48 (2856 days ago) @ samoore

...but today the production of the first sets will start and from that run I'll know the costs. This is what I need first to be able to set the price right...

Cheers,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Not yet...

by RobsterD @, UK, Wednesday, April 07, 2010, 21:14 (2847 days ago) @ Bert

Hi Bert,
looking forward to this any updates yet,will there be any changes to the crossover and bass amp arrangement ?
Cheers
Rob

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Not yet...

by Bert @, Wednesday, April 07, 2010, 21:40 (2847 days ago) @ RobsterD

Hi Rob,

looking forward to this any updates yet, will there be any changes to the crossover and bass amp arrangement ?

Many things can be updated in time...it will only make things better.

Regardsless of what you are using now, it can be updated and improved but it is not essential. The new enclosure with the same BD15 does not alter the upper bass in a way that changes are needed.

I am working on a new crossover now (Orphean with REF 2010 and later REF Ultra, Oris 150, 200 and 250) and at the same time adding some EQ so that the whole system plays flat down to 23Hz. No need for a subwoofer... ;-)

This extra EQ might give some troubles though (it needs more gain than the previous used passive line level filter needed). An extra stage or pre-amp will make that work out okay though but a good solution which everybody can implement easily is not figured out yet.

I am using two BD30 amps in series...:swoon:...but that is overkill just for the needed 9-12dB extra gain.

Things are progressing though, the enclosure itself is finished - optimally tuned damping material amount and port tuning (Fc 23Hz) with a very wide range on both ends giving high output capabilities from 20Hz and up...

:bass:

Not the most important thing in music but if you can have that at the same time then why not eh?

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Can't wait !

by RobsterD @, UK, Wednesday, April 07, 2010, 23:35 (2847 days ago) @ Bert

Thanks Bert,
Some nice pictures required with some horns mounted :grin:
Was just about to veneer my bass cabs too,after upgrading to the Ultras,I thought that would be it !
Look forward to the upgrade Bert.
Cheers
Rob

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Me neither...

by Bert @, Thursday, April 08, 2010, 08:31 (2846 days ago) @ RobsterD

Some nice pictures required with some horns mounted :grin:

Getting some locks for those lower horns today so that they do not drop on the floor all the time... :grin:

After that I first want to have those front and top parts painted to give more contrast and therefore a better understanding of the whole concept. Taking pictures and show them now will only raise unneccesary questions...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Not yet...

by Russell Craig, Thursday, April 08, 2010, 21:42 (2846 days ago) @ Bert


I am working on a new crossover now (Orphean with REF 2010 and later REF Ultra, Oris 150, 200 and 250) and at the same time adding some EQ so that the whole system plays flat down to 23Hz. No need for a subwoofer... ;-)

This extra EQ might give some troubles though (it needs more gain than the previous used passive line level filter needed). An extra stage or pre-amp will make that work out okay though but a good solution which everybody can implement easily is not figured out yet.

I am using two BD30 amps in series...:swoon:...but that is overkill just for the needed 9-12dB extra gain.

Is something like this DACT preamp module what would be required?

his is sounding very exciting now!

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Not yet...

by Bert @, Thursday, April 08, 2010, 23:06 (2846 days ago) @ Russell Craig

Hi Russell,

Is something like this DACT preamp module what would be required?

That would be perfect! It can even use the power supply of the bass amps I am using...

Thanks for the hint! :thankyou:

his is sounding very exciting now!

His? You mean THIS I guess?

Cheers,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Not yet...

by Russell Craig, Thursday, April 08, 2010, 23:16 (2846 days ago) @ Bert

Glad you think it looks interesting.

I have the DACT phono preamp and power supply - very nice. BTW - worth taking a look at their power supply - some interesting design concepts.

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Thinking a bit more...

by Bert @, Friday, April 09, 2010, 07:59 (2845 days ago) @ Russell Craig

...makes this DACT overkill (or underkill). If the opamp route is choosen then why not make the crossover fully active (Linkwitz style) to fit my needs? This would save the extra parts between the bass amp and the bass driver too...

For opamps I only need +5 and -5V and with a few regulators it should be feasable to use almost any quality powersupply in front of that.

I guess need to check this out further.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Thinking a bit more...

by Russell Craig, Saturday, April 10, 2010, 09:14 (2844 days ago) @ Bert

...makes this DACT overkill (or underkill). If the opamp route is choosen then why not make the crossover fully active (Linkwitz style) to fit my needs? This would save the extra parts between the bass amp and the bass driver too...

Possibly although I suppose it depends on what bandwith somebody might wish to apply EQ to, and whether they want to do room response and time domain correction etc?

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Thinking a bit more...

by Bert @, Saturday, April 10, 2010, 09:54 (2844 days ago) @ Russell Craig

No, just thinking costs...

Why spend more than needed? Extra gain can be created with an IC and with that same IC (probably needing 2 per channel) the EQ and crossover can be made also.

Good quality IC's should be used of course (thinking slew rate, distortion, etc.) and a decent power supply. When building yourself this would cost a lot less than buying the DACT and still needing an extra IC for the crossover if one wants to replace the passive components between the bass amplifier and de bass driver...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Thinking a bit more...

by Russell Craig, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 23:25 (2843 days ago) @ Bert

Makes sense to me.

Thinking a bit more...

by Gasper, Monday, April 12, 2010, 14:00 (2842 days ago) @ Bert

Just hope I won't be too :pleasantry: complicated for diy-ers...:scared1: :grazy: :no::wacko: :clever:
:kiekeboe: G.

Thinking a bit more...

by Russell Craig, Sunday, April 11, 2010, 23:23 (2843 days ago) @ Russell Craig

Oops - instead of reading DACT I read "DEQX" which is why I made the odd comments about room correction.

Fantastic to see the REF 2010's yesterday - I thinlk people should be very excited when they see the final product!

Reference 2010

by mr.gregdee, Friday, June 11, 2010, 15:28 (2782 days ago) @ Bert

above the diamonds
this woofer bin is another thing which spot my interest.
let me know Bert ,please how can you compare it with an onken bin
I am currently using .You familiar with both ,so I belikeve to hear
proper reflections about here .

there is a pair of 416 -16a from altec working in my onkens .
are they a good match to try with your ref's

after basic reading looks like they may go lower with a bit smaller overal size
what is now ,my main concern ,since I live in tinny english house .

Oh God what I did to my woofers :-(
mia culpa

greg

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Reference 2010

by Bert @, Friday, June 11, 2010, 21:51 (2782 days ago) @ mr.gregdee

Hi Greg,

this woofer bin is another thing which spot my interest.
let me know Bert ,please how can you compare it with an onken bin
I am currently using .You familiar with both ,so I belikeve to hear
proper reflections about here .

Let´s say that the Onken has character where the REF2010 doesn´t unless neutrality can be seen as a character too.

there is a pair of 416 -16a from altec working in my onkens .
are they a good match to try with your ref's

With some modifications to adept more depth of the deeper driver then yes, they will be a good match for the low system Q tuning. You will hear very well what the driver will do on its own in them... :yes:

after basic reading looks like they may go lower with a bit smaller overal size what is now ,my main concern ,since I live in tinny english house .

The REF2010 is designed for multipurpose use and one of their usability is to be able to place them closer to the backwall/corner without getting boomy...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Reference 2010

by Veleik, Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:13 (2623 days ago) @ Bert

Hi Bert,

when will we be able to read more about the REF2010 on the website. I'm currently looking into the Orphean, but want to hold out for the REF2010 bass-system. I know about the pricing info in the forum, but what about crossovers, Ultra-mods etc.?

Kind regards

Veleik

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Reference 2010

by Bert @, Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 14:28 (2623 days ago) @ Veleik

Dear Veleik,

when will we be able to read more about the REF2010 on the website.

That will take a while... :blush:

I'm currently looking into the Orphean, but want to hold out for the REF2010 bass-system. I know about the pricing info in the forum, but what about crossovers, Ultra-mods etc.?

Basically all will remain the same except for the bass enclosure. The Compact and Ultra were replaced for the REF2010 for which both versions the same eclosure can be used. The basic REF2010 is used as "Compact" and to make it an Ultra you'll have to flip the enclosure 180 degrees and add the Oris 150/BD15 in front of the driver.

It is as simple as that and everything is available too, no need to wait! :grin:

Bert

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BD-Design - Only the Best!

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