Orelo/Orelino with Horns (Orelo/Orelino)

by TonyB, Toronto, Canada, Wednesday, March 05, 2014, 18:57 (1414 days ago)

I am looking for “something” that will cover frequency band below approximately 350Hz.
The range above 350Hz will be covered with compression drivers with a 200Hz horn,
a 600Hz horn and a tweeter. The crossovers will be approximately 350Hz, 1200Hz and
5000Hz. That “something” has to be compatible with horns sound wise. The three
horns will use low power SET amplifier. I am willing to use some “powerful” solid
state amplifier below 350Hz. Since the range below 350Hz covers voice, the amplifier
has to be good sounding. I am thinking of a 30W Hiraga amplifier. My room is
20’ W x 40’ L = 6m W x 12m L, opened to the rest of the house through a large
stairway. More power is needed here compared to a smaller room. The speakers cannot
be placed on the front wall or front corners.

I want all horns/drivers to be time aligned without using DSP time delay. My
original thought for the range below 350Hz was to use either Onken bass reflex
enclosure or a 80Hz – 100Hz horn with a cone driver plus a sealed bass enclosure or
a bass folded sub horn.

The other option is to use an open baffle with horn type wings. Western Electric
did it long time ago. First I saw GIP baffles with WE designs. Then I came across
Wolf von Langa design and finally Bert’s.

So I started looking at Orelo/Orelino.

Orelo would be a good candidate considering I have 8 Altec 515B 15” drivers sitting
at home collecting dust. My ceiling is only 2.06m. I am little short of the 2.1m
full Orelo height but based on previous Bert’s posts, it should not be a problem to
make a slightly shorter 2.0m tall version. However, the biggest problem with Orelo
is how to integrate it with 3 time aligned horns. I would have to make some (ugly)
structure holding the horns in front of Orelo. That would cause time misalignment
corresponding to at least 25cm difference between Orelo and the compression drivers.
I am not thrilled about such time misalignment considering the crossover would be at
350Hz, in the human voice range.

Orelino may therefore be a better solution with the horns placed above it. Nothing
is for free. Orelino is smaller. A smaller baffle causes the baffle bass roll off at
a higher frequency. That can be compensated for with an EQ but the drivers will have
larger excursion at lower frequencies, causing higher distortion. I am not sure if
Orelino dimensions were published. I would expect that Orelino’s ratio of depth to
width is higher than that of Orelo. That will give a narrower and longer throat
causing lower frequency “horn” cut off. In addition, Orelino may have
harder time in a large room like mine.

Any suggestions for my low end?

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Orelo/Orelino with Horns

by Bert @, Wednesday, March 05, 2014, 19:47 (1413 days ago) @ TonyB

Hi Tony,

Any suggestions for my low end?

4x 39cm is 156cm total height needed for the four bass drivers. I do not know what the size of the throats are but I would think that these would fit through a hole in the baffle of the Orelo's? Somewhere in between the woofers?

The Orphean as used in the Orelo is time-aligned this way.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orelo/Orelino with Horns

by TonyB, Toronto, Canada, Wednesday, March 05, 2014, 20:16 (1413 days ago) @ Bert

This was my original idea as well.

There is a small problem with other than BD horns which
do not have a constant diameter outer tube at its throat.
Sealing such a horn in the baffle is more difficult.
In addition, the compression drivers should not be
on a vertical line but on an arc with a center at the listening
position and should be tilted towards the listener.
All of this is easier with single Orphean. :smile:

I could also use 12" drivers to create more vertical space
on a 2m tall baffle.

Would half Orelo be enough for an open 6m x 12m room?

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Orelo/Orelino with Horns

by Bert @, Wednesday, March 05, 2014, 21:04 (1413 days ago) @ TonyB

Would half Orelo be enough for an open 6m x 12m room?

Yes, I think it will for normal people. Going disco might be a bit too much... :blush:

You'll have about 9dB less headroom and less 'focus' in the lower frequencies if you're going for half way.

Or go for a 3/4 and squeeze three bass drivers in the panel?

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BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orelo/Orelino with Horns

by TonyB, Toronto, Canada, Thursday, March 06, 2014, 13:47 (1413 days ago) @ Bert

Lower height panels with three 15" drivers are a possibility.
I would start with horn vertical placement and see if I can
place the 15" drivers around them.

The plan was to have the tweeter at ear level, 600Hz horn above
it and the 200Hz horn on top. This would be the arrangement for
Onken bass reflex enclosure on the bottom. With a three driver panel
the 200Hz horn could at the bottom, the tweeter at ear level
and the 600Hz horn above it. However, the throat may get narrower
with a three driver panel and it may be difficult to fit the horns
into the panel throat.

The horns will be either Goto S-200 and S-600 or LeCleac'h
version of Iwata horns. LeCleac'h horns would be more difficult
to fit since these are wide (in horizontal plane) and have
large outside throat diameter when made from wood.

Will the panels work well even if the drivers are spaced farther
apart? All your panels had drivers located close together.

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Orelo/Orelino with Horns

by Bert @, Thursday, March 06, 2014, 21:26 (1412 days ago) @ TonyB

Will the panels work well even if the drivers are spaced farther
apart? All your panels had drivers located close together.

In the center they are spaced widely to fit the Orphean horn in between which is no real issue for the bass used up to 350Hz. Surely it will not be 100% optimal looking at just the bass but in practice it works out more than okay.

Wave lengths are pretty long and interference would not be much worse than the ceiling, floor and sidewalls. Time-alignment is a lot more critical!

Bert

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BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orelo/Orelino with Horns

by TonyB, Toronto, Canada, Friday, March 07, 2014, 23:15 (1411 days ago) @ Bert

I will start with horn driver placement and see how I can fit
the three cone drivers in between. That will dictate the height
of the panels. The minus side is that likely I will not be able
to try four cone drivers in these panels. Also, at least some
of the horns will be in front of the cone drivers.

I will look at it in a couple of weeks.

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Keep us posted! (nt)

by Bert @, Saturday, March 08, 2014, 08:19 (1411 days ago) @ TonyB

[No Text]

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BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Orelo/Orelino with Horns

by Bert @, Thursday, March 06, 2014, 09:08 (1413 days ago) @ TonyB

Hi Tony,

In addition, the compression drivers should not be
on a vertical line but on an arc with a center at the listening
position and should be tilted towards the listener.

Do you have a picture of those horns? It would help to see what you are referring to... :read:

Bert

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BD-Design - Only the Best!

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